straight pull rifles

[Safarigent]

Just came actoss the Strasser SR05

http://www.hms-strasser.at/?l=en

As compared to the blaser r8 and the browning maral,
Which one would you choose?

[timmy]

The Browning looks pretty conventional: essentially, a hand-operated version of a semi-automatic rifle. The bolt has a number of lugs that lock when rotated to engage shoulders in the receiver. The bolt fits into a carrier-like part that has a spiral groove in it, so that when it is pulled back, first rotates the bolt, unlocking it, and then pulls the bolt backwards. It is almost like a hand-powered version of a modern sporting BAR (which, incidentally, is a totally different animal from the old US Army BAR).

The Strasser RS 05 and the Blaser R8 are similar. A collet type of engagement fits into the back of the barrel, locking when the protruding edges of the collet "fingers" expand to lock into what I presume to be a groove inside a sleeve-like extension of the barrel.

The Blaser/Strasser system will permit interchanging barrels so that these rifles can become multipurpose weapons.

Comments:

The straight pull bolt idea has been around for quite awhile. The Swiss used the straight pull system similar to the Browning for a number of different military rifles, which, incidentally are renowned for their fine workmanship and accuracy. (The fact that the Swiss produced match grade ammo for everyday use didn't hurt their accuracy, either!) The Austrians also used a more crude and inexpensive straight pull, the M95, for their armed forces. The Blaser/Strasser system heads off in a different direction and offers even more features than the Browning.

First of all, I can't see the point of a straight pull bolt action rifle nowadays. It seems to me that the step to a fully semi-auto makes more sense, as straight pulls do not have the camping action that a conventional bolt action rifle does, and whatever speed advantage they offer over a normal bolt action can be bettered by a pump action and, ultimately, a semiauto. Why even bother with having to cycle the action by hand? Semiautos have been developed to have fine accuracy and would not be at any disadvantage, compared to these three rifles, in the department of reliability. True, such a rifle would be expensive, but these three rifles are not exactly a poor man's choice, either.

Regarding the interchangeable barrel system, I have never seen the point of a one-gun-for-all-uses rifle. These things are very expensive, and the hunter who buys one isn't getting one because they offer an economic advantage. They seem more like a gee-whiz gadget to me: an expensive toy. Where cost is no object, I'd much prefer to have a whole host of different kinds of rifles. I suppose that, if one is a maharaja, having one of these with a zillion barrels is just one more gun among many, so what does it matter?

I find myself enjoying looking at these and wanting to handle and examine them, to see how they work, but for myself, I would rather have a more conventional bolt action or a semiautomatic.

But there is no doubt that all three of them have beautiful finish and wood.

Just my opinion!

[skeetshot]

You just cannot beat the Blaser !!!

The Strasser's claim to fame is it is designed by Horst Blaser, the original owner of the Blaser company, and there are some interesting features in this rifle such as the Hydraulic clamp and its barrel locking system, but several million rifles have proved the R 93 and no other rifle has been able to match its features.

And then there is the almost unbelievable accuracy that the Blasers display shooting right out of the box.

[Safarigent]

I thought the R93 is inferior to the R8?

[Safarigent]

Timmy, thanks for your write up. Erudite as always.

[TRX]

First of all, I can't see the point of a straight pull bolt action rifle nowadays.

Lots of straight-pull (or pump action) AK and AR pattern rifles are out there, sold in places like Britain, South Africa, or the People's Republic of California. Some places, semiautos aren't allowed, or are so restricted many potential customers pass on the hassle.

[timmy]

First of all, I can't see the point of a straight pull bolt action rifle nowadays.

Lots of straight-pull (or pump action) AK and AR pattern rifles are out there, sold in places like Britain, South Africa, or the People's Republic of California. Some places, semiautos aren't allowed, or are so restricted many potential customers pass on the hassle.

I would be interested in seeing some high-dollar hunting rifles that are "AK and AR pattern" in straight pull or pump action -- please post some examples.

[skeetshot]

I thought the R93 is inferior to the R8?

The R 8 was Blaser's "improvement" on the R 93 and, some feel, its marketing response to an unfounded rumour that the R 93 is unsafe.

Compared to the R 93, the R 8 has the option of a detachable magazine, but the trigger unit also comes off with it, a steeper angle in the locking collet, a more clunky stock and grip.

In terms of accuracy, both are equally accurate, and in terms of handling, many shooters prefer the R 93. Also, the options of barrels, stocks and other accessories are
far more for the R 93

Visit BlaserBuds.com for a wealth of information on Blasers

[Safarigent]

Just checked blaser.de
R93 lists 23 calibers, including the .22lr which isnt offered with the R8 platform: 39 or so calibers
But they have ommitted out some lovely calibres in both;
Eg: .22LR for the R8, 7x57, .404J, .505 Gibbs
Also no .416 rem mag/rigby for the R93. Nothing above .375 caliber. I am guessing this ties back to a weaker action?

[skeetshot]

The R 93 is available in 416 Remington Mag.

The R 8 is able to accommodate even larger calibers including the 404 Jeffreys on account of its bigger breech.

Both models have been tested past 14000 bars by DEVA, the German proof house. The standard Mauser action is rated to 7000 bars before failure.

Many shooters consider the bigger calibers the realm of the double rifle.

[Vikram]

I am guessing this ties back to a weaker action?

Whatever they are, Blaser rifle actions are not weak.

If you are using google Chrome, it will translate the page into English.

http://www.testfakta.se/sport_fritid/article15269.ece

http://www.testfakta.se/sport_fritid/article14658.ece


[youtube][/youtube]

[Grumpy]

Timmy, TRX is correct, there are straight pull rifles based on the AR15/M16 and Kalashnikov platforms produced by several manufacturers. We`re not allowed semi-auto centre-fire rifles in the UK so these rifles feed a demand. Most are used for practical rifle but they`re produced for other target disciplines also and a few are in use for fox shooting. The legal requirement is that they are built from the ground up without a gas mechanism - reverse engineering of a semi-auto rifle is not allowed.
Southern Gun Company is probably the longest established of these manufacturers .... unfortunately they are rebuilding their website at the moment and this is all that is available : http://www.southern-gun.co.uk/
Here`s a lightly used example currently for sale : http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sal ... 1145944371

[timmy]

Grumpy, that is not my point! A laser or similar rifle is intended for a wealthy hunter who can afford anything, and wants a high performance rifle, regardless of cost. I seriously doubt that hunters buy one of these rifles because they wanted a semi auto military gun, but we're prevented from doing so by some sort of regulation. They are buying these rifles because they want the very best, period.

My opinion, which is what was solicited, is that, if money was no object and I could have any rifle I wanted, I would either want a conventional bolt or, if speed was the issue, a semi-auto. I would not want a look-alike that was a castrated version of a military rifle.

My feeling is that these rifles you mention are intended for a very different market than the ones this thread has discussed. While there is certainly somebody out there who will buy anything for any reason, I do not see the guns you mentioned as competing in the same market as the Blaser.

Furthermore, I don't even see a converted semi-auto type action as being comparable to the Blaser-type action in a straight pull application (and this would include the Browning). The rotary bolt has a good application for camming and extraction, but if that advantage is eschewed (which a multi-lug rotary bolt, like the Browning and M16-type action does, along with straight pulls in general), how do they offer an advantage over a semi-auto?

[Grumpy]

They don`t offer any advantage over a semi-auto whatsoever - their creation is out of necessity rather than any advantage because if someone wants a centrefire AR15/M16 lookeelikee here that`s the all that they can have.
These rifles cannot compare to a true straight-pull as regards efficient operation because they are a compromise design - the gas mechanism is missing.
I said that they don`t compete with the Blaser - or whatever - because hardly anyone uses them for hunting.
Dunno what you`re arguing about really Timmy because all the points you mention are covered in my initial post and I`ve agreed with all you say.