Sniper Rifles- Does the Indian Army use them at all?

[Skyman]

FF, thanks for the link to that forum.There is a wealth of information on that forum.

[gladiatorgarg]

INDIAN army is an classic example of assorted weapons where we can find top of the line latest weapons like tavor,glock,amr side by side 9mm smc legacy of ww2,infact we have stuck to haphazard re-arming of the army but if latest inside reports to be believed something good n rational is on the offing...lets see if our bureaucrats can guide the defence minister properly

[essdee1972]

if latest inside reports to be believed something good n rational is on the offing...lets see if our bureaucrats can guide the defence minister properly

Keeping my fingers crossed, Major sahib! You guys deserve the best, not the hodge-podge of calibers and makes we see today.

[Skyman]

Major Sahib, do keep us updated! Are you currently serving?

[Grumpy]

I don`t see how the Indian army snipers can compete with the best if they haven`t got specialist sniping rifles. What is probably the best .50 cal sniper rifle isn`t a Barrett, it`s the McMillan TAC-10. The world record for distance with a sniping rifle is British - 2.47 km with an Accuracy International L115A3 in .338 Lapua, in Afghanistan in 2009. The previous record was held by a Canadian - also in Afghanistan - in 2002 using a Tac-10 .50 cal at a range of 2.43 km. I have an idea that the record prior to that was held by an Australian in Vietnam. Technically the .50 BMG is capable of greater range than the .338 Lapua but you`re unlikely see an American sniper in the record books because they are issued ordinary .50 BMG ammo - the same as is used in the M2 machine gun - which has limited range compared to specialist sniper ammo.
The Accuracy International L115A3 cost £23,000 ( R.23 lakhs ) EACH back in 2008 by the way.
The co-founder of Accuracy International, Malcolm Cooper, won gold medals in successive Olympic Games in the 50 metre three position event and was a world champion in various events. He died in 2001. Accuracy International is a small British company: http://www.accuracyinternational.com/index.php
The world record story :
http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-longest-sn ... 7km/14992/

[winnie_the_pooh]

Grumpy,

23k pounds is more like 19 lakhs,about the price of a .357 mag in some areas.Have gone through the AI website many times.....like a child staring at a toy he knows he is never going to get .

[Grumpy]

When I checked the exchange rate the week before last it was almost exactly £1.00 = R100.
I mentioned the price of the AI L115A3 as a comparison with the prices quoted for the INSAS and AK47 etc. The point being that quality doesn`t come cheap, compromises invariably mean compromised performance and if you ain`t prepared to pay you can`t expect to be able to compete.
Malcolm Cooper used to shoot loads of different rifle classes - including air rifle - by the way.

[fantumfan2003]

Some nice inputs, to which, I'd like to add.

.50BMG and .338LM calibers are Tier 1 calibers in sniper rifles. They have more of an anti material role than an anti-infantry type. They are also meant for applications in the 1500+ yds range.

There is no reason to believe that IA snipers can't compete with the best. Cost of special rounds, especially for calibers like .50BMG can be an issue but does not seem so either, even Mumbai Police Force 1 Unit have the Barret M107 in their inventory.

When NSG got their HK PSG1 with special ammo, I am sure they did not come cheap at that time. If the Sri Lankans can afford AI L96, so can we.
Of course there is a tendency in our country to equip the Armed forces (except NSG/SPG) with "sasta maal" like Dragunov SR, Galil SR etc. But they are able to hold there own under a 1000yds. Another example of making the armed forces adapting to, instead of dictating on, what they want.

The Canadian used heavier US made .50 cal bullets in their TAC-10 for that record. The British sniper fired nine round from his L115A3 before he got the next three 1S1K (two bad guys and their MG) but that is understandable as at 2.4km + he probably did not have an exact idea where his rounds would land.

M.

I don`t see how the Indian army snipers can compete with the best if they haven`t got specialist sniping rifles. What is probably the best .50 cal sniper rifle isn`t a Barrett, it`s the McMillan TAC-10. The world record for distance with a sniping rifle is British - 2.47 km with an Accuracy International L115A3 in .338 Lapua, in Afghanistan in 2009. The previous record was held by a Canadian - also in Afghanistan - in 2002 using a Tac-10 .50 cal at a range of 2.43 km. I have an idea that the record prior to that was held by an Australian in Vietnam. Technically the .50 BMG is capable of greater range than the .338 Lapua but you`re unlikely see an American sniper in the record books because they are issued ordinary .50 BMG ammo - the same as is used in the M2 machine gun - which has limited range compared to specialist sniper ammo.
The Accuracy International L115A3 cost £23,000 ( R.23 lakhs ) EACH back in 2008 by the way.
The co-founder of Accuracy International, Malcolm Cooper, won gold medals in successive Olympic Games in the 50 metre three position event and was a world champion in various events. He died in 2001. Accuracy International is a small British company: http://www.accuracyinternational.com/index.php
The world record story :
http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-longest-sn ... 7km/14992/

[fantumfan2003]

The Accuracy International AWM, AWSM, L96 and L115A3 are very well built, well performing and sexy looking rifles. Even I trawl on their website many a times.........





M.

[Grumpy]

Apparently the record has climbed to 2.815 km by an Australian commando sniper in Afghanistan sometime in 2012 using a Barrett M82A1.50 BMG.................. I knew there was an Australian involved somewhere.lol

[xl_target]

There have been several mentions of Designated Marksmen here. One must realize that a Designated Marksman is not the same a dedicated Sniper (at least in the US Army). He is just a grunt with a heavier gun. Generally he is a Rifleman first and the squad's DM next. He is supposed to support his squad with aimed fire out past the normal range of the issue squad rifle.
A Squad Designated Marksman with a Squad Designated Marksman Rifle (SDM-R) is supposed to support his squad with aimed fire out to 600 yards. Often this is just a modified AR type of rifle (heavier barrel, fixed stock, optics).
The US Marines call them Squad Advanced Marksmen.

Similarly users of Soviet equipment use the SVD (Dragunov) as a Squad Designated Marksman Rifle.
The Indian Army does apparently use domestically built versions of the SVD.

For precision shooting, specifically designed sniper cartridges are used, developed by V. M. Sabelnikov, P. P. Sazonov and V. M. Dvorianinov. The proprietary 7N1 load has a steel jacketed projectile with an air pocket, a steel core and a lead knocker in the base for maximum terminal effect. The 7N1 was replaced in 1999 by the 7N14 round. The 7N14 is a new load developed for the SVD. It consists of a 151 grain projectile that travels at the same 830 m/s, but it has a sharp hardened steel core projectile. The rifle can also fire standard 7.62×54mmR ammunition with either conventional, tracer or armor piercing incendiary rounds.
The Russian military has established accuracy standards that the SVD and its corresponding sniper grade ammunition have to meet. Manufacturers must perform firing tests to check if the rifles and sniper grade ammunition fulfill these standards. To comply to the standards, the SVD rifle with 7N1 sniper cartridges may not produce more than 1.24 MOA extreme vertical spread with 240 mm twist rate barrels and no more than 1.04 MOA extreme vertical spread with 320 mm twist rate barrels. When using standard grade 57-N-323S cartridges, the accuracy of the SVD is reduced to 2.21 MOA extreme vertical spread. The extreme vertical spreads for the SVD are established by shooting 5-shot groups at 300 m range. The accuracy requirements demanded of the SVD with sniper grade ammunition are similar to the American M24 Sniper Weapon System with M118SB cartridges (1.18 MOA extreme vertical spread) and the M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System with M118LR ammunition (1.27 MOA extreme vertical spread).

from Wikipedia

[Sakobav]

This article says something about technical and other capabilities of Indian special forces - per Lt Gen katoch ex SF

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 130415.htm

[Grumpy]

"TC wrote:"

"303 Enfied (please don't laugh guys, six months after Kargil I was on board a Navy ship {cant tell here which one} where marksmen were posted on the deck with 303s and binoculars to spot and shoot at floating mines)"

"We won't laugh. After all, the venerable 303 with a scope was used by the British as a sniper weapon in two world wars"

The L42 sniper rifle ( a 7.62x51 conversion of the No.4 MK II ) was still in use by some units of the British Army into the early 1990s !