MoA: some help or advice on varmints, please!

[timmy]

MoA: You are doing a lot of benchrest shooting and, as I mentioned, I have picked up that paperback book on this subject. While, as you note, it may be a bit dated regarding benchrest competition, it certainly does present some interesting ideas that apply to the sort of varmint shooting I like.

Especially in the areas of rifle prep and benchrest reloading, there are some "do-able" things that are reasonable for a varminter!

My question is, if you have been following Asif's description of his Stevens in .223, would you be able to compare the accuracy of the .223 vs the .22-250 vs the 6mm Benchrest, regarding accuracy? How much of an advantage (disregarding performance of the larger bullet in windy conditions) in accuracy would you think the 6mm BR offers over the pair of .22s? Would you be able to give an estimate as far as grouping at 200 yards, given the same or similar rifles?

What I'd be getting at here is whether such a move would be worth the extra money, or whether sticking with the factory .223 or .22-250 makes more sense.

Thanks!!

[MoA]

Ok, my experience with the .223 is very limited. I have shot it mostly in the AR type of rifles, and while sub-MoA is possible it is difficult to acieve. The ,223 is quite popular with the varmint crowd.

The .22-250 I have shot a bit, and do own one. I was very pleasently surprised with it. I can hold < 0.5 MoA with the 52 grain SMK's and Varget. My load is slightly hotter than the one in the Lyman manual and I shoot the bullet well jammed into the lands. To the point where if I unload a cartridge it does come apart. The load is safe in my rifle, but may not be in yours. I have shot this out to 3-400 and as the range increases, the little bullets do get tossed around in the wind. Plus barrel life is short. If you want to hold under 0.5 MoA you're looking at under 1500 rounds.
It is a very popular varmint cartdige and I do know of people who use this out to 4-500 meters.

The 6 Norma BR is slightly different to the 6 BR Remington strictly speaking. The inherrent advanateges of this round comes into its own at 300 and beyond. Under 300 it will get spanked by the 6 PPC and .30 BR. I use a 26 inch 1:8 twist barrel, and can hold roughly 0.25 quite literally all day long. I.e. 5 foulers, 2-3 groups clean. The majoor advantage of this caliber is the High BC of the bullets. You cant disregard it. Plus this caliber almost unifromly in any rifle with any barrel has a sweet spot with the 105 Lapua and 29.5-30.5 grains of Varget. Personally I get better results with N-150 and N-140. In terms of primers the CCI BR 4 works for me. I shoot this combination with which a jam of 0.02 is more than most. In a 10-20 kmh cross wind I average .3's with free recoil and in dead still conditions it does reward me with groups in the .1's. (I do shoot the .22-250 free recoil as well)

For accuracy the 6 BR will spank the .22's any given day. The advantage is the availability of better bullets. For 200-800 meters The 6 BR is superb. Under that the .30 BR and 6 PPC. The former dominates score and the latter group.

From a reloading and varminting perspective the 6 BR spanks the .223 and .22-250 both of which are finicky in terms of powders, bullets, OAL etc. You can not disregard bullet design in accuracy.

-- Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:15 --

Another somewhat disregarded cartridge is the .222 Rem Magnum. It will surprise you.

-- Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:30 --

In terms of a choice for varmint shooting:

The .22-250 is more tolerant of fouling than the 6 BR. If youre doing at >300 Meters try the .30 BR with the Bib bullets. ($$$) Just want to have fun... pick a bull barrel that can hold 2 MoA in a caliber of your choice. Those P-Dogs dont care if you can hold > 0.5 MoA, they are about 3 MoA if I remember correctly. In the .22 cal the varmint grenades are fun.

[eljefe]

HI Timmy,
If you want to stick to 223, do remember the twist of the stevens in 223 is 1:9 - will stabilise the 69gr smk,75 Amax very well.The only time I tried 55 gr was that el cheapo Chinese Norinco, were all on 1x1 paper at 200m, but I mean ALL OVER bit of a tight bolt lift...so i gave up after 5. Havent tried laddering a whole bunch of ammo- was awaiting some time off and its not happening.
How ever, have you considered a 204 for varminting? I saw a Ruger a while ago in 204.Whilst not cheap here, If yours is going to be more than a 1 night stand for varminting, its just what the doc ordered.
That 39 gr Blitzking on Varget ,is hitting some 3800fps, and upto 350-400m,great medicine.


a bit less graphic than some of the Aussie bunny busting,But the general effect is the same...That 204 will match up to a 22-250, but I think with a 10% less powder charge and lesser recoil.Dont know how many rounds that translates into in terms of barrel life.

But if you want to Try the Stevens 200, a bit of mods like Stock, Pillars, glass bedding and a 'hubble' scope- about a 120 bucks excl scope? seeing that Boyd's,Richards microfit, Acraglas, Devcon and 5/8 threaded stock are faar cheaper stateside?Dont forget-Throw away the original poofter stock!!
Scope-something in the order of a 6,5-20x Sightron will be OK.While I use a Nightforce 12-42 for the 6.5x284, its amazing what you can see at 40x - especially a whole lot of mirage, on a good day !

[MoA]

Actually a .204 will burn barrels just as well as a .22-250 or maybe a might faster.
Barrel life is a function of the amount of powder burned and velocity.
I know of a .204 ruger that started life as a sub 1/2 MoA gun and at 3K rounds was shooting a little over 2 MoA. Which might be decent for some, the accuracy has degraed by a factor of 4. So while relative, it is a fact of life.

[eljefe]

MoA-
Barrels are far cheaper in USA...

[timmy]

Thanks for the input!! (Sorry for getting back to the subject late.)

One of the factors I'm thinking of here also has to do with the expense of shooting. For this, .223 has it all over everything else, as there are a lot of sources for brass, and the selection of .224 bullets is quite extensive -- meaning costs are more controlled.

For 6mm BR, there would be an increase in cost, but I'm thinking about whether it would be worth the expense.

I'm going to move my thoughts over here, so as not to mess up the Stevens thread -- regarding the rifle, I certainly wouldn't knock the Savage. I have been looking at their newest, the Savage Edge. Check this out:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010 ... get-rifle/

http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-Edge243.htm

The price of these things is simply too hard to beat!

Also, I've been studying the 6mm BR here:

http://www.6mmbr.com/cartridgediagrams.html

I'm not totally sure, but I am wondering whether it would be possible to set the Edge barrel back enough -- just set it back and rechamber it in 6mm BR, or whether it would be even worth the expense for the advantage gained over .223 or .243. Anyway, I certainly have had my interests aroused by the Savage!

Thanks!

[MoA]

it would probably be cheaper just to buy a Savage pre fit barrel in 6 NBR.
One of the advantages of a Savage is that it takes all of about 10 minutes to swap a barrel out. that way you could shoot any cartridge with the .308 bolthead, gives you a selection of over a dozen calibers. I regularly swap barrels on Savages at whim.

[timmy]

Yes, I see your point. I'm going to look into that. Thanks!

[MoA]

Also check Savageshooters.com... save your money and use a free subscription. The free info is better than the paid info..

[timmy]

Thanks for that link! I see that there are some real pros there, and the leads on other things to research are quite valuable.