Tokarev/Finocci 7.62mm ammo in aMauser C96 Broomhandle 7.63

[captrakshitsharma]

Hi!! Another C96 broomhandlemmo advice. I find it hard and real expensive to get orignal 7.63 ammo for my Mause C96 broomhandle. Dealers are trying to sell me 7.62 mm can it be harming the weapon??

[Risala]

Where are you located,I believe ammo for this cal is easily available...go down to Garg Armoury,Kashmere Gate...he should have it...I would be surprised if he didnt...

[TwoRivers]

7.62x25 Tokarev ammo should work just fine, the Tok cartridge is a Russian clone of the 7.63x25 Mauser cartridge, and actullay is loaded to slightly lower pressure. It is, however, corrosive.
Czechoslovakian 7.62x25 is reportedly loaded to higher pressures, no test results ever given to support that claim, though it certainly is loaded to higher velocity. That given, I would not use it in my C96 without a pressure test of the ammo. Having said that, the reported muzzle velocity for the Czech ammo, is attainable within the 7.62x25 pressure limits.
Ammo available in India would probably be Chinese or Russian military stuff, certainly corrosive.
Cheers.

[Vikram]

Thanks for that,Tworivers.

If you do not clean your firearm after you shoot with corrosive ammo properly, the barrel is certain to be damaged.

How to go about it for example

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/co ... /index.asp


Best-
Vikram

[winnie_the_pooh]

Some sources seem to indicate that the 7.62 Tok ammo. is loaded to a higher pressure than the 7.63 mauser.I would suggest that you stick to the 7.63 ammo for the the C 96.

-- Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:05 pm --

This might be of use http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/sho ... ?p=3275110

[kanwar76]

OT Alert

Some sources seem to indicate that the 7.62 Tok ammo. is loaded to a higher pressure than the 7.63 mauser.I would suggest that you stick to the 7.63 ammo for the the C 96.

-- Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:05 pm --

This might be of use http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/sho ... ?p=3275110

Hi winnie_the_pooh

Welcome to the forum, please write a small introduction about you so that members here can know you better.

-Inder

[winnie_the_pooh]

I am cute and cuddly and you can read all about me here http://www.just-pooh.com/

Goes without saying that I love guns

[The Doc]

I am cute and cuddly and you can read all about me here http://www.just-pooh.com/

Well in that case KOOCHIE KOO and welcome !!


best.

[Anand]

I would not fire 7.62x25 Tokarev ammunition in a Broomhandle Mauser. I would imagine Sellier & Bellot is what is commonly available. The corrsiveness of the ammunition is not the problem (which can be tackled with diligent cleaning rituals).

The 7.62x25 Tokarev ammunition is "generally acknowledged" to be loaded to higher pressures than most 7.63x25 Mauser ammunition. I cannot prove this "fact".
I have had many distasteful arguments regarding this very issue.
Let me just say that I have been advised by some friends that the bolt stop on C-96 pistols may become distorted or severely damaged if excessive pressure ammunition is used.

I have chronoed 7.62x25 S&B ammo and arrived at an average of approx. 1570 fps (through a Chinese "Tokarev" and the package of 7.63 FNM ammo mentions velocity as 425 mps (meters/second) which is equal to 1395 fps.

Regards,
Anand

[TwoRivers]

Max average pressure for the 7.62x25 Tokarev is 2400 bar. For the 7.63x25 Mauser it's 2600 bar. If you don't believe it, ask any CIP proof house. Cheers.

[captrakshitsharma]

LOL.. LOL ..LOL... MY DEAR EXPERTS ! Poor man ME is STILL CONFUSED.... TO BE OR NOT TO BE.. PLS Shed more light..

[Vikram]

LOL.. LOL ..LOL... MY DEAR EXPERTS ! Poor man ME is STILL CONFUSED.... TO BE OR NOT TO BE.. PLS Shed more light..

No offence, members above went through the effort of typing very informative replies.You can make the effort to type a proper question instead of text speech and capitals.May I ask what the confusion is about? Thanks.

Best-
Vikram

[phillyriverrat57]

I am kinda late in the mauser C-96 game, when i buy a new gun i do alot of reasearch, i do not reload unless it necessary and i am very weary about ammo, some of my guns are as old as 128 years old i shoot. The C-96 mauser i own is also one of my search projects, and ammo is hard to find. i will caution that useing tokarev ammo is a deffent NO NO. in all the reading i have done in the past 4 months and looking at pressure charts, the tok stuff generates about 35000 psi higher pressure than standard mauser ammo, it has resulted in guns being destryoed, bolts being bent and in some cases shooters being injured. remember these guns are 100 years old or at least pushing that age- mine was made in 1917. it is really worth destroying a high price investment. take the time and look the ammo up from different manufactures and supply houses, sometimes it is a wait, but in the long run it is well worth it, especially for your safety

[Vineet]

My father owns a mauser pistol and I bought 7.63 ammo, made in Italy, last week for Rs.100 each.The 7.62 is available for around Rs.70.The difference is only of Rs.30.I have seen people fire 7.62 ammo in mauser to save money.I think its a stupidity to spoil the pistol only to save few hundred ruppess when the price of mauser is around 3 lakhs and that of repeater mauser is 10 lakhs.
As far as availability of 7.63 ammo is concerned it is not a problem in and around Muktsar.I don't know about other areas.

[TwoRivers]

I am kinda late in the mauser C-96 game, when i buy a new gun i do alot of reasearch, i do not reload unless it necessary and i am very weary about ammo, some of my guns are as old as 128 years old i shoot. The C-96 mauser i own is also one of my search projects, and ammo is hard to find. i will caution that useing tokarev ammo is a deffent NO NO. in all the reading i have done in the past 4 months and looking at pressure charts, the tok stuff generates about 35000 psi higher pressure than standard mauser ammo, it has resulted in guns being destryoed, bolts being bent and in some cases shooters being injured. remember these guns are 100 years old or at least pushing that age- mine was made in 1917. it is really worth destroying a high price investment. take the time and look the ammo up from different manufactures and supply houses, sometimes it is a wait, but in the long run it is well worth it, especially for your safety

Welcome to the forum!
It's unfortunate that your advice pegs the bullshit meter. Would you mind letting us know what "pressure charts" you have looked at? Or where the rest of your extensive research results come from?

Tokarev MAP (maximum average pressure) is 2400 bar; Mauser 2600 bar, just to reiterate. For the mathematically challenged, one bar equals 14.25 psi. So we have 37,050 psi for the Mauser, 34,200 psi for the Tokarev. Both Russia and the Czech Republic are signatories to CIP, which sets those standards. And in all countries government proof houses make sure that arms and ammunition comply.

There are slight differences in the dimensions of the two cartridges, the Tok being "back-engineered" from the Mauser round; and a maximum sized cartridge of one, may not chamber fully in a minimum chamber of the other. But that is an unlikely to happen.


Now, I'll readily grant that Czechoslovak surplus ammo reportedly gave around 1700 ft/sec; which is about 300 feet more than the standard Mauser load. However, no one who wrote about it ever provided pressure figures for the alleged velocity of 1700 fps. But feel free to show me otherwise.

Some surplus military ammo has deteriorated and gives erratic performance. The Bulgarian, Romanian, and Yugoslav surplus available currently here seems to be ok, though misfires have been reported with the Yugo stuff. You always take a chance with surplus military ammo, unless the importer had it pressure tested. Most countries got rid of because it was getting old, unreliable, and just plain bad. Not that excellent quality stuff isn't out there either. Russian military stuff used to be noticeably louder than commercial Mauser ammo, but that was caused by the powder used. Velocity was right about where they said it should be.

You claim that the "tok stuff generates about 35000 psi higher pressures than standard mauser ammo". Now that idiocy alone should have tipped you off that all your research had led you into a swamp. 72,000 psi operating pressure?, that's proof load pressure for a high intensity rifle cartridge.

So, please, don't quote nonsensical hearsay. And use capitals as well as lower case letters when posting. "textspeak" is frowned upon.

Cheers.