PSM 5.45 x 18 mm cal RussianPistol

[The Doc]

Gentlemen,

I have recently come across this wonderful little pistol. I don't think that 5.45 mm ammo is available in this country. My question is whether 6.35 mm ( .25 acp) ammo can be used in this ? From the net I do understand that the dimensions of both 5.45 and 6.35 bullets are identical, though 5.45 has a bottle neck.

best,

RP.

[Sakobav]

Doc

We all learn something new here, I cannot answer the question but is this the gun
http://russian-weapons.com/2008/04/psm- ... ng-pistol/
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg23-e.htm
http://www.enemyforces.com/firearms/psm.htm on this page they list "The designers of the cartridge-pistol complex, apparently inspired by the idea of creating a compact pistol possessing sufficient destructive power, had to develop a new and unique 5.45mm cartridge. In terms of overall dimensions, the 5.45mm MPTs pistol cartridge is virtually identical to the 6.35mm Browning pistol. In terms of muzzle energy, our cartridge surpasses the Browning cartridge by 1.2 to 1.5 times and is somewhat better than the 5.6mm circular-ignition high-velocity cartridge (.22LR HV). In terms of specific energy (ratio of muzzle energy to bullet cross section area), the MPTs cartridge surpasses the 6.35mm cartridge 1.5 to 2 times and the 5.6mm cartridge 1.1 times. This characteristic determines the depth of bullet penetration into soft tissue and penetrating effect."

Even though the dimensions of 5.45mm are similar to .25 acp and it doesnt mean the gun would work properly and goes against the cardinal rule of using specified bullets for a gun.



You may have researched this but per discussion in this forum it looks like they did make a gun for .25 acp.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 75947.html

So Doc I could hardly find anything it seems to be a gun issued to high ranking officers ( per links above) to be used for protection or suicide LOL.

use this rarity of cartridge to negotiate the price hope the bullets are available in Russia.

best

[Sakobav]

Doc

I had pinged ex member Mehul and his feedback is not encouraging

"As it is the 0.25 will neither chamber nor feed and if he somehow manages to force a round into the barrel and fire it, it should create abnormally high pressures and that can be harmful"

Lets see what others suggest..

Best

[The Doc]

"As it is the 0.25 will neither chamber nor feed and if he somehow manages to force a round into the barrel and fire it, it should create abnormally high pressures and that can be harmful"

ngrewal,

I am a stickler for firearm safety myself and will never ever take a "panga" that would explode on my face .
Like you rightly pointed out , its the history of this firearm which is very interesting . I thoroughly enjoyed reading about it.

best ,
RP.

[Grumpy]

Gordon Bennet - give me strength !
Firstly, the dimensions of the 5.45x18 and 6.35 ( .25ACP ) are NOT the same..........The case diameter is similar but the 5.45x18 utilises a bottle-necked case whilst the .25ACP has a straight-walled case. The 5.45x18 case is bottle-necked to accomodate the sub .22 calibre bullet. The clue is in the nomenclature - 5.45mm is NOT the same as 6.35mm. Or, if you prefer, .208" is not the same as .25".
Secondly, it is the pressure generated by the 5.45x18 cartridge that is much higher than that of a .22 lr or .25 ACP. As such the back pressure also will be higher when used in the correct chamber but that is of little consequence.
It is possible that the chamber might accomodate a .25 ACP cartridge - but I suspect that it would have to be hammered into the chamber but even if it does fit the chamber you would still be trying to force a 6.35mm bullet down a 5.45mm barrel. The consequences of which ought to be obvious - 6.35 into 5.45 don`t go sunshine. As a result of this the pressures generated will be extreme as the gas has nowhere to go. A nice little hand-held grenade.
The 5.45x18 is a high velocity cartridge developed to allow the use of a very small pistol for covert activities - the idea is that the tiny pill of a bullet would be able to generate adequate velocity to pass through body armour.
I know the situation in India regarding the availabilty and cost of firearms/ammunition but it is about time that common sense prevailed and people stopped trying to utilise incorrect ammunition for a particular gun. One day some idiot is going to severely injure - or even kill - himself ........... although I suspect that has already happened - probably several times.

[The Doc]

6.35 into 5.45 don`t go sunshine.

Thanks Grumps,

I stand corrected. The question now is where to get a 5.45 bullet in India?

best,
RP.

[mashh1]

Doc, Grumpy have cleared the matter in detail. i have tried this pistol nearly 15 years ago, it belonged to my senior, bullets were very scarce and become unavailable after some time. the said pistol become a paper weight but our armorer than fitted a new barrel in it and it was converted to .25 ACP. the original barrel was intact & pistol shoot fine. you can adopt the same way after checking the legalities involved and if any competent gunsmith available.
regards

[cottage cheese]

6.35 into 5.45 don`t go sunshine.

Thanks Grumps,

I stand corrected. The question now is where to get a 5.45 bullet in India?

best,
RP.

Hi Doc,

5.45 pistol ammo is a relative rarity even in places where guns proliferate. Anyway the ammo is mediocre in performance though its claimed to penetrate pretty well.

The chances of finding 5.45 ammo India (legally) would be very close to nil. I doubt even the illegal market has PSMs floating around.

Regards,
cc

[cottage cheese]

...and don't try stuffing .25ACPs into PSMs.

[Grumpy]

I suspect that the pistol entered the market illegally in the first place - possibly/probably via Afghanistan after the Russian invasion.
Ammo IS difficult to source.......and reloading isn`t an option even if 5.45x18 cases were to be found as the cartridge is Berdan primed.

[mundaire]

Doc, Grumpy have cleared the matter in detail. i have tried this pistol nearly 15 years ago, it belonged to my senior, bullets were very scarce and become unavailable after some time. the said pistol become a paper weight but our armorer than fitted a new barrel in it and it was converted to .25 ACP. the original barrel was intact & pistol shoot fine. you can adopt the same way after checking the legalities involved and if any competent gunsmith available.
regards

Massh, didn't realise you were in uniform. Still serving?

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[mashh1]

Abhijeet, you are one sharp moderator, I quit years ago on medical grounds, was MBA previously, start Job in Finance Dept of a Multi National, had done my Mphil in business finance and resigned from current job on last Thursday and enjoying notice period. want to continue my studies and Phd in my subject is next target.
regards

[mundaire]

Abhijeet, you are one sharp moderator, I quit years ago on medical grounds

had done my Mphil in business finance and resigned from current job on last Thursday and enjoying notice period. want to continue my studies and Phd in my subject is next target.
regards

Wish you all the best for your future endeavours! Are you planning on doing your PHD in Pak or are you applying overseas? Enjoy the break...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[mashh1]

Abhijeet thanks for your well wishes, i need a lot of them. certainly trying to do it overseas but only if i get scholarship for it, last time score enabled me to go to Malaysia but i am going to reappear in October and will try for UK or Australia, whichever i can manage to get.
Thanks & regards

[TwoRivers]

No, not, NEVER. Totally different cartridges.