Indians For Guns

Hi guys,

I ned your help in rating this weapon. Yesterday i finalised the deal for 0.22 LR Walther PPK for 6L. The gun is silver plated with serial number 100737. Can anyone tell me is it worth buying the gun and rating for the same. As i need to make the final payment and take the delivery. The other option was Llama 0.32 and 0.32walther PPK .32.

An early response will be appreciated.

cheers

sudhanshu

You haven't mentioned the prices at which the .32 pistols are being offered to you... for any sort of self-defence use the .32 ACP cartridge would be substantially superior to the .22 LR...

Which one of the 3 pistols mentioned should you go for? It all depends on condition and price...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Walther ppk are good for status symbol in India, the fact still remains that they are prone to jamming ,this is purely my experience and you guys would be surprised to know that to fill my pistol licence , i bought 2002 IOF pistol for 80k ,shot 50 rounds in rifle club and no problem, this type of results were never gathered from PPK , may be i am lucky enough to get the good piece.Given this to pistolsmith for major makeover and would post the pictures once i get it. Sudhanshu ,whatever you buy just fire 50 shots before paying ,i know the cartrige limits but where there is a will there is a way...Cheers James....

Hi,

The 0.32 llama was offered for 7.5 L and the 0.32 Walther was also offered at same price. The irony was that the same llama i saw 8 month back was offered to me for 4.5 L. I have selected the .22 Walther PPK for now but m confused. need your advice as the difference is only 1.5 L between the two.

How would u rate the 0.22 LR. Is it reliable gun ?? The plus point i like bout this gun is its colour i.e. silver and the guy told me that it won't get rusted as its alloy.

As far as the conditions are concerned, they look pretty neat. Maybe they are reblued.. can't make out.

6 L for a .22 ,you are getting ripped off,but then may be you want to.

I know the dealer he keeps good stuff but not the best bloke to deal with,the Llama's are NIB,picked up from the STC auction.

In your budget you should be able to pick up almost anything,look around,make a few calls and dont delay,the longer you wait the higher will be the price.

Good luck.

Sanjay

Hi Sanjay,

Can you pls let me know the dealer's name. How much the Llama should cost (STC auction 1).

cheers

sudhanshu

a month back a friend of mine got a 32 ribbed llama for 4lacs,very nice condition...
these days it seems a lotof auction being going on for the new ones with the state trading corporation.
does anybody has any idea/info, from where do these handguns land up with the stc for the auctions.
regards sanjiv

A lot is made about the 'condition' of a firearm.What people talk about is how the firearm looks cosmetically.Personally I would not mind a firearm with all its bluing rubbed off as long as the firearm has been maintained properly and save a lot of money in the process.People also talk about whether the firearm is in 'original' condition or not read repaired or reblued.As long as the repair /bluing has been undertaken by some one who knows his job,it makes no difference to the reliability/serviceability of the firearm.

"for any sort of self-defence use the .32 ACP cartridge would be substantially superior to the .22 LR... "

It isn`t you know.
The .32acp is a hopeless manstopper. A real fart in a thunderstorm calibre.

Grumpy";p="34591 wrote:"for any sort of self-defence use the .32 ACP cartridge would be substantially superior to the .22 LR... "

It isn`t you know.
The .32acp is a hopeless manstopper. A real fart in a thunderstorm calibre.

Not a manstopper, sure... but it produces more energy than a .22 LR! Which is the point I was making... It's purely a matter of picking out the best one can from a bad deal (the situation in India)...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Abhijeet, the .32acp produces c. 125-130 ft lbs ME. A Hyper velocity .22 lr - such as the CCI Stinger - produces 191 ft lbs ME from a c. 22" barrel and around 130 ft lbs from a 5-6" barrel.
The 60-70 gr low velocity .32 acp might deliver a little more `KO` factor but it`s nominal/notional.......I`ll also take a bet that the only .32 acp ammo available to you are round nose solids - the Stngers and similar are hollowpoints which transfer energy far more effectively.
Given the choice, I`d pick a 6" barrelled .22 lr revolver because it`s multi-purpose - you can use it for home defence purposes, at the range and for hunting/plinking. Load it with target ammo for range use, Hyper Velocity ammo for home defence and cheapo stuff for plinking.
One other factor is that I`ll bet .22 lr ammo is less expensive than .32 acp in India.
In your circumstances I reckon the .22 lr is the better choice - and if I had to trust my life to either I`d pick a .22 revolver loaded with hyper velocity hollowpoints over a .32acp semi-auto any - and every - day of the week.

Grumpy,

First lets look at Indian made ammo (.32 ACP vs. .22 LR) - which is what is most widely available and what the vast majority of people would be using, due to cost/ availability factor. There is simply NO hi-velocity OR hyper velocity .22 LR ammo made in India. And yep, the .32 ACP ammo made here is round nosed full metal jacketed. Considering the standard .32 ACP & .22 LR ammo made by IOF, the .32 ACP would most certainly have superior ME. While the IOFB website does not give complete details, it does offer the following information -

.32 ACP - projectile velocity at 9m (30 ft) - 950 ± 50 ft./Sec (290 ± 15.2 m/Sec)

.22 LR - projectile velocity at 9m (30 ft) - 1000 ± 75 ft./Sec (305 ± 23 m/Sec)

I hear imported .32 ACP ammo is available from time to time, but this is quite expensive and once again IIRC is round nosed full metal jacketed. I am told .22 LR CCI Stingers are also available from time to time but very few dealers would have them in stock, also I am not sure that they would be completely safe to use in the .22 LR Walther PPK being discussed above.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

A handgun in India would also be used for Concealed Carry .Most Indians would not have th luxury of owning 2 handguns because of the prohibitive cost of getting even one and also the near impossibility of most Indians to get permission to buy a second handgun.A revolver with a 6" barrel is not exactly easy to conceal or carry.

60 gr bullet @ 950 fps = 120 ft lbs.
70 gr bullet @ 950 fps = 140 ft lbs.

The +/- 50 fps variation is worrying.....and rather extreme. I`d be much more inclined to believe the - 50 fps figure.
The mean figures generally quoted for the .32 acp are c. 970 fps for the 60 gr bullet and 905 fps for the 71 gr bullet - and those are MUZZLE velocity figures.

I wouldn`t recommend the use of hyper velocity ammo in a .22 lr semi-auto pistol either - unless the manufacturer specifically states the the pistol is suitable for use with such ammo.....and plenty of .22 semi-autos ARE suitable for use with Hyper Velocity ammo.

As regards the Walther PPK .22LR I wouldn`t advise its use in a defensive role anyway because it IS notoriously unreliable as several members have pointed out.

As it happens I wouldn`t advise the use of a semi-auto for home defence use anyway. One jam and you are fu**ed ! If you can only have one gun get a revolver. If a revolver misfires you just pull the trigger again and fire the next cartridge - NOT an option with a semi-auto.

Not only is the .32 acp a hopeless man-stopper, solid jacketed bullets are also hopeless manstoppers. Energy figures mean nothing if that energy is not transferred to the target and jacketed solids are very inefficient in that respect.

As regards the cost and availability of .22 lr Hyper Velocity ammunition just remember that you only need buy one box - ever. In fact a group of friends can buy one box of CCI Stingers and share the contents out. The odds that you`ll ever need to use them are remote so a cylinder full is adequate - which means that the cost can be spread amongst 8 people. You don`t need them for target shooting or plinking so much cheaper ammunition can be used for those purposes.

I`ll repeat myself: For home defensive use a 6" barrelled .22 revolver loaded with Hyper Velocity hollowpoint ammunition is a better option than the pathetic .32 acp.
It would be a different matter if you had access to the defensive loads available in the US - but you don`t so the matter doesn`t arise.

Sorry penpusher - you posted whilst I was typing.
You know my reponse to your point anyway: If you have to carry the gun get a 4" barrelled .22 lr revolver loaded with Hyper Velocity hollowpoints. Still a better option than the .32acp.
By the way, anyone who thinks that they can easily access a gun from a `concealed` carry without adequate training and practice is fooling themselves.