pokhar wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:28 pm
Dear Timmy sir,
Thanks for your detailed reply. Kindly let us know about function of the trigger safety. Is it available in Indian Atal and victor and if yes can we really rely on it by keeping pistol in loaded/cocked position?
Pokharji, I can't tell you whether the trigger safety is available on the Atal or not for two reasons: Firstly, I've never handled one, and Secondly, nobody who has, has seen fit to post a description of the pistol anywhere that I could find. Note here, I'm not referring to the "what a pretty box" videos and the "how to take the pistol out of the box" videos, or the "Watch me shoot at a bank of dirt" videos. These are practically useless for the purpose of understanding a weapon and judging its suitability for one's need.
Here is a picture of a Canik TP9SA Mod 2, which is made in Türkiye:
(I'm posting this photo because it shows the trigger well and, yes, I want one! Click on the photo to enlarge.)
Often in pistols with a trigger that looks like this, the safety that is in the center accomplishes two functions: firstly, it acts as a trigger block: the trigger cannot be hit or pulled unless the center safety portion is completely depressed. Secondly, it also deactivates a firing pin block.
A firing pin block often works like this: the firing pin has a groove cut into its side. Coming up vertically from the frame, there is a small rod that fits into the groove in the firing pin. The safety or trigger pushes up on the rod and causes it to disengage from the groove in the firing pin, so that the firing pin can move forward to hit the cartridge primer. Unless the safety or trigger is purposely depressed, the firing pin is locked can the weapon can't discharge.
A Glock, which has a trigger like this, adds an additional function: The gun operates half-way between double action and single action, as the striker is cocked half way when the gun is fired, and pulling the safety-trigger cocks the striker the other half of the way. This puts the gun in a position after firing where it is less likely that the striker would have enough energy to fire a round, should the firing pin block fail (which is very unlikely).
Nowadays, especially in hunting rifles and shotguns, it is common for the so-called "safety" to simply block the trigger from being depressed, or block the sear's engagement with the hammer or striker. Look at an old Mauser rifle: you'll see that the flag safety at the rear of the bolt engages the firing pin directly. Pull the trigger, drop the rifle, do your best, but the gun will not fire because steel engages steel and it must be broken before the gun can fire.
These kinds of integrated trigger safeties can be very effective if they are designed and built correctly. For instance, it is the only safety in a Glock -- there are no others. That is the same with the Canik in the picture I posted.
Similarly in pistols, There are "safeties" and there are real safeties: the best designs will place a block of solid steel in the travel of the hammer (like a Colt 1911) or in the way of the firing pin (like a Glock or some CZ pistols) so that even if the gun is dropped, it will not go off and possibly shoot you!
The Colt Pocket Pistol and many other pistols, like, I believe, the Ashani, only block the trigger or the sear. This means that if the thin edge of the sear or the thin notch on the hammer break when the gun is dropped, the gun will go off, even if the safety is set. Much is made by some of the grip safety in the 1911, but it doesn't make the gun much safer if it is dropped for this reason.
A similar problem exists with the Chinese "Star," or Tokarev TT33 copy: the only safety is a half cock notch in the hammer, and if the pistol is dropped, it is quite possible for the small thin edge of the sear or the notch of the hammer to fail, causing a discharge. Also, it's possible for the tiny pin the sear rides on to fail with the same result. So the Star, like all of the trigger and sear blocking safeties are not safe to carry with a round in the chamber.
The result of this is that the gun, to be used for self defense, must have the slide racked to feed a round into the empty chamber before it is ready for duty. This was not a consideration for a military weapon (early French military rifles had no safety at all: one fed a round into the chamber when one was ready to shoot!). Stalin's objection to dismountable magazines, like the AK-47, was that the typical Soviet soldier was quite stupid and would lose the magazine. If a few soldiers were killed by negligent discharge, that was no issue to him. Likewise, the British Sten didn't have a particularly safe safety design, either, but at least they were cheap to make, but apparently in all of these considerations, cheapness of the gun was of more value than the cheap soldier's life!
For myself, I want a real safety that is going to block the firing of the gun with steel on steel, not some pretend device that simply blocks the trigger. I fel the same way about rifles and shotguns, too, though I do own some that don't do this.
Here are a couple of wikipedia pages you may want to check:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_(firearms)
There's a lot of information on this page, but look at the "types" section first. Look at the rest if you want to know more, but "Types" is germane to your question.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_%28firearms%29
Here, you should look at firing pin block, hammer block, and transfer bar. (The transfer bar is often used on Ruger handguns). Also look at Integrated Trigger Safety. As above, gain what you can from the rest of the page, but these paragraphs are meaningful to your questions.
One aspect of modern guns is the proliferation of designs. A hundred years ago, if one knew the basic designs, figuring out how something new worked wasn't difficult. But now, there are so many new designs that have different principles of operation, one almost has to study each gun to figure out how it works.
Modern guns also have a lot of little parts. These are often made by modern processes from stamped metal, sintered metal, but often with some sort of metal that has been properly heat treated, which is the real trick. Back years ago, small metal parts were often cut out of a chunk of metal and the heat treating of the part was questionable.
When I was young and worked on electro-mechanical telecom switching equipment, the company issued a pair of small double ended wrenches to work on the equipment. They were obviously stamped and ugly, compared to the shiny automotive wrenches of the day. I found out about how good those "cheap" wrenches were when i tried to engrave my name on them: The engraver's hardened tip bounced all over the surface of the metal, but didn't engrave my name! The stamping of the wrench acted as a sort of forging and the surface of the wrench was very hard, indeed. During all of those years, I never heard of one of those wrenches bending or breaking!
So be careful of judging "a book by its cover"! Parts made by processes that used to only be used for cheap things are now used to make very serviceable parts more cheaply, holding down the cost of production. Or, they may simply be more of the same old junk. It's up to us, the gun buyers, to figure out the junk from the good stuff, which is why we share our knowledge and experience here on IFG.