Indians For Guns

It has been more than a good year for Indian Arms license holders as they witnessed a lot of handguns and international arms manufacturing players trying to enter Indian Markets.

In the pipeline we have Glock, CZ,Taurus, SMith & Wessons , Webley soon to be introduced models and ALso Indian companies like Sheikh Arms, Malhotra Defence, Gretta gunWorks, Jindal, Adani, New Light Arms, IOF etc. launch models. Recently I saw. an article where in Webley Sial is likely to launch a .32 bore pistol in June, the sale is said to commence anywhere near September end.

.45 is a very aggressive bore and difficult to handle for new/less experienced arms owners as it is very lethal bore and a powerful one, We saw MAlhotra defence and Webley introduce a 1911 lookalike .45 model, however Indians are fond of and inclined towards .32 bore more because of several reasons, Namely the price of the ammunition where .45 is 2x/3x expensive than .32, Availability of ammunition and power of the bore.
The decision to introduce a .32 bore pistol which is almost based on a CZ model is a very wise decision as people who already have experience of Ashani Mark pistols of Indian ordinance will be far more familiar which both the bore of weapon and the weapon itself.

"WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS, ALSO IF YOU HAVE FURTHER INFORMATION TO ADD ON PLEASE WEIGH IN "

Their revolvers seemed to be of poor quality, let's hope the pistol is better made!

As to ammo price, imported 32 acp ammo is a lot more expensive than imported 45 acp ammo.

Also from what i have found out, .32 has inherent defects which leads to jamming and ejection issues. Recently had jams and non ejection twice while firing 8 rounds with my IOF RFI mark 1 pistol.

This while practicing in a range and not under pressure. Makes me wonder what will even happen if god forbids a self defence situation arises.

Just waiting for better weapons and suitable bores to become available.

Pratipalsinh Jadeja wrote: ↑

Mon May 15, 2023 2:06 pm

The decision to introduce a .32 bore pistol which is almost based on a CZ model is a very wise decision

Which new 32 Auto pistol is based on a CZ model, and which CZ model are you referring to?

Pratipalsinh Jadeja wrote: ↑

Mon May 15, 2023 2:06 pm

It has been more than a good year for Indian Arms license holders as they witnessed a lot of handguns and international arms manufacturing players trying to enter Indian Markets.

In the pipeline we have Glock, CZ,Taurus, SMith & Wessons , Webley soon to be introduced models and ALso Indian companies like Sheikh Arms, Malhotra Defence, Gretta gunWorks, Jindal, Adani, New Light Arms, IOF etc. launch models. Recently I saw. an article where in Webley Sial is likely to launch a .32 bore pistol in June, the sale is said to commence anywhere near September end.

Yes, it has been a very good year for lots of announcements and raised expectations, but there seems to be very little to show for it, once the chaff has been blown away.

As mundaire points out, quality seems to be an issue in a number of cases, and where quality is present, a big bite of the pocketbook is needed to obtain one of these new guns.

Pratipalsinh Jadeja wrote: ↑

Mon May 15, 2023 2:06 pm

.45 is a very aggressive bore and difficult to handle for new/less experienced arms owners as it is very lethal bore and a powerful one, We saw MAlhotra defence and Webley introduce a 1911 lookalike .45 model, however Indians are fond of and inclined towards .32 bore more because of several reasons, Namely the price of the ammunition where .45 is 2x/3x expensive than .32, Availability of ammunition and power of the bore.

Shooting a 45 Auto pistol is somewhat more challenging than shooting some other chamberings, but this depends on the pistol and the load involved. Mainly, mastering a 45 Auto is much more of an issue of practice. The ammunition quotas are not sufficient to provide the necessary practice for most people. That's why, in my opinion, the overriding issue here is the state of gun restrictions, not the innate awesomeness of 45 Auto pistols. Most of that is only urban legend spread by word of mouth. If folks could get the ammunition and the guns that they wanted, a lot of these "unshootable by the majority" notions would be quickly dispelled.

There was a time when 9 x 19 was looked at as an inferior round, compared to the 45 Auto, but this is no longer the case. A quick look at the relevant data shows that a 9 x 19 can develop the same energy as a 45 Auto. This is done by increased operating pressures, just as many newer cartridges being introduced operate at increased pressures. These principles are well known -- just look at the ages of 9 x 19 and 45 Auto.

The real problem with 9 x 19 performance, relative to 45 Auto, has been bullet design. Now that bullets are available that can harness the 9 x 19's energy, it performs on par with 45 Auto.

These same advancements in technology can and are beginning to be used in smaller cartridges, such as the 30 Super Carry in the place of 32 Auto and 327 Federal Magnum in place of 32 Smith & Wesson Long. Increased pressures give 30 Super Carry and 327 Federal Magnum energy levels near what can be obtained from 9 x 19 and 45 Auto, and the new bullet technologies can make them perform satisfactorily, as well.

These 32 cartridges can be used in smaller guns, and guns can have a greater capacity because of the smaller dimensions of the cartridges. For instance, the 38 Special Smith & Wesson Chief's Special can only chamber five rounds, yet in a 32 cartridge, it can be chambered for six. Now that the 327 Federal Magnum is available, using improved metallurgies to handle that cartridge's higher pressure means that a more capable gun in the same size and weight package can be offered at a reasonable price point.

Personally, I see no need to step away from the 32 bore, whether revolver or pistol. What it needed for Indian makers to step away from designs and technologies that are over a century old and use new metals and synthetic materials to produce guns that are lighter, more capable, and safer than what is available today.

Seriously, when Colt could produce a safe revolver in 1905 and Smith & Wesson by WW2, what in the world is the excuse for offering revolvers based on ancient designs and that are basically unsafe unless one carries them with the hammer over an empty chamber, reducing that awkward lump to a five shot weapon?

What is the point of copying pistols that John M Browning designed at the turn of the century, and not this turn of the century, when all sorts of modern designs have been on the market for several decades? Sure, some folks are enamored with carrying "James Bond's gun," but that thing came out of Germany before WW2. Has mankind made no progress since then?

If mankind has made technical progress since the 00s, the 30s, and the 40s, what is the excuse for offering many of the weapons that are on the market today?

I guess that I just don't find very much to celebrate in old designs and advertising promises, most of which have been only dreams.

The design of the upcoming Webley .32 pistol is said to be inspired much from the CZ83, I had a word with an expert who happens to be in close terms with me and is based from Seattle, United States, when I showed him the picture which is doing rounds on the internet of the Webley pistol he added that it also shares characteristics with the Mauser.

However I have an opinion it is based on the CZ83 which is a compact semi-automatic pistol made for the Czechoslovakian military. "vz." is an abbreviation for "vzor", which translates to "model." A civilian export version is called the CZ 83, Gun bloggers in India are of similar opinion that the model CZ83 shares similarities with the upcoming Webley Pistol.

Coming to other reply, I do prefer and love 9X19 but unfortunately we live in India where the pore a PB (Prohibited bore), I have shot the 9mm in Thailand why I was on vacation, the recoil and overall look and feel of a 9mm shooting is very convenient and appeals much. however the impact of a .45 is larger in my opinion if shot properly.

Please share a picture of this new Webley. I'm interested in seeing how it is inspired from a CZ83.

I have generally found that any hints as to the inner workings of these new guns is seldom shared. I've also found that, just because they look similar from the outside, it does not necessarily mean that the internal workings, such as the lockwork and/or the safety work the same way.

Can you post a link to an image?

Of course, 9 x 19 remains PB. I did not mention it to imply otherwise, or that this situation might change, but to give an example of how bullet technology has allowed 9 x 19 to become just as valid a self defense round as 45 Auto. 45 Auto is larger in diameter, yes, but its lower velocities often make expansion unreliable, while 9 x 19 expands reliably with new bullets.

This demonstration of bullet technology shows that 32 bore bullets also benefit, as well, and that their high velocity in new cartridges allows good expansion, too. Just as 9 x 19 allowed lighter recoil and increased ammo capacity in pistols, so these new 32 bore cartridges allow even more recoil reduction and greater ammo capacity in both pistols and revolvers, while still maintaining an acceptable level of performance.

If Indian pistols and revolvers can step forward beyond ancient designs, there are new cartridges available that offer acceptable performance without the need to resort to 45 Auto or 9 x 19. That is my point.