Indians For Guns

asifalikhanasif wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:12 pm

Good news for all
something new is coming for everyone.
7.62 mm / .30 Caliber

mundaire wrote: ↑

Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:44 pm

Copy of the Tokarev? That too, only design/ plans and no working prototype?

timmy wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:55 am

casual shooter: Yes, this looks like a TT33 Tokarev copy. Designed and made in the Soviet Union beginning in the 30s, the design was shared with some Warsaw Pact nations (including Poland and Romania), Yugoslavia, and China. The design is very tough and the cartridge, 7.62x25, is as powerful as the 9mm Lugar cartridge. Many European ammo makers load for it, including PPU, Fiochi, sand Sellier and Ballot. Peerhaps some of the Russian ammo makers, like Wolf, also load for this, but I have not checked. The Sellier and Ballot ammo is supposed to be particularly hot. I have some of this ammunition, but I have not tried shooting it, as I'm still working on a batch of Romanian surplus that I bought awhile back.

This pistol is an OK weapon, but not the best for concealed carry and self-protection. Thankfully, the picture shows that this maker hasn't decided to incorporate a safety, as other nations have required for importation. The safety is totally useless, as it is only a hammer block and relies upon the sear egagement with the trigger to keep you safe. I don't know about you, but I prefer not to trust any of my parts and bits to a very thin surface on the sear and a very small ledge on the hammer (parts 24 and 10 in the first attached picture). If dropped when cocked, either or both of these could break.

If the manufacturer incorporated an inertia firing pin, rather than the positive firing pin this design uses, it might be safer to carry the weapon with the hammer down on a live round. All of the versions available today DO NOT allow this! (Please note that neither IFG nor I am responsible for some nitwit trying to do so!)

The half-cock on the hammer is deep, but still relies on the integrity of the heat treatment of the hammer, sear, and the strength of their pins to protect you. I've just had my firing assembly (hammer, sear, springs, and pins) apart recently, and those parts look mighty small for such a heavy weapon.

These pistols were designed to provide the Soviet soldier and officer with a side arm. they were aimed at allowing an illiterate peasant to operate such a weapon in primitive battlefield conditions, and to be as inexpensive as possible. Note that Stalin insisted on the 1945 SKS rifle having an integral, rather than detachable magazine because he considered the average Soviet soldier to stupid and careless to manage a detachable one -- this is the sort of design constraint made on this weapon. (Of course, the AK came out a little later with a detachable magazine!)

The positive firing pin was considered able to make every cartridge go BANG! when the hammer was dropped, including ammunition made under severe wartime conditions.

There are other design attributes that could be pointed out, but pistol was more than adequate for the task for which it was intended. It is heavy for its size, because no time or effort was expended in machining the parts to onlly be as heavy as they need to be. For instance, unlike the much more elegant US 1911 45 Auto, the barrel's locking lugs go all the way around the barrel, without milling off the ~270* degrees that do nothing to lock the action. Handguns, in the scheme of war, account for very little of the enemy casualties, and the Soviets, perhaps rightly, considered that anything more than the basic effort to provide a pistol was unnecessary.

However, it is indeed sad that something more modern cannot be made available. Granted, a 1911 or Browning High Power can still survive in this day and age as an effective carry weapon, because of the unique excellence of its design. The TT33, while a reasonably effective weapon for its time, does not rise to that level, however.

One attribute that is nice about the TT33 is that it is very slim and slender. It is almost as small as a Colt Pocket Pistol, but its 7.62x25 (or 9mm in some versions) cartridge is much more powerful than the Colt's 380 Auto round.

@james: While copying does need skills, the skills in question are those of a Khyber Pass fellow working in primitive conditions. Consider that Ruger's Security 9 is a polymer framed 9mm, fully safe and serviceable and light in weight, and it is selling on sale in the USA now at $250. I can see little reason why a modern, capable weapon like this isn't available in India for around the same price, and that it isn't doesn't seem like a very reasonable or defensible situation to me.

The Browning High Power is a little different of a situation, for as I said, it is an exceptional design and still holds its own with modern pistols for personal carry, despite the fact that it's about as old as the TT33.