Indians For Guns

Written by our member TC


https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 5ZQaJ.html

Famed British firearms maker Webley and Scott (W&S) will soon be arming citizens of India, marking a radical shift in the production and sale of firearms for civilians in the country.

Founded in 1790, W&S armed allied forces in the two World Wars and produced weapons for at least 15 countries. India’s police force, too, used the iconic W&S .38 caliber revolver as a standard sidearm till the early 1990s.

The company is now all set to become the first foreign company to set up a plant in India for the civilian market under Centre’s Make in India initiative. Experts see this as a game-changer.

W&S entered into a joint venture with Sial Manufacturer Pvt Ltd--an Uttar Pradesh firm—to come up with a plant in the Sandila industrial area near Lucknow for the new entity named Webley and Scott India.

“My colleagues visited the site last week and its development is certainly underway,” Laura Judd, a senior executive of W&S told HT in an email on March 2.

“The website and Facebook pages (of the Indian project) have been created by us here in the UK,” Judd added.

“We will soon launch the classic W&S Mark IV revolver in .32 caliber in two variations. This will be followed later in the year by a .32 caliber pistol with polymer frame and steel slide. The pistol will have a 13-shot capacity. Next in line are a 12 bore pump-action shotgun, a .45 caliber pistol and air rifles,” said Maninder Sial, the British company’s Indian partner.

Webley’s John Bright is the joint director for Webley and Scott India. The company said it applied for a licence for production in 2017 and got it in 2019.

“The .45 pistol may take time as the ammunition is not made in India and we have to seek permission for importing it. Initially, we will have to depend on Indian ordnance factories for proof test of the weapons. We will come up with proof testing facilities of our own soon,” said Sial.

Since the Indira Gandhi government banned import of firearms for civilians in the early 80s, second-hand guns sell in the retail market at sky-high prices because of a huge mismatch in demand and supply. This trade will be hit, say experts.

Also, the Ordnance Factory Board, which makes .32 caliber handguns for civilians (which includes a revolver that resembles the W&S) will face competition.

“The revolver will be priced at about Rs 1 lakh while the pistol will retail for about Rs 2 lakh. The goods and services tax (GST) will be added to this,” said Sial.

D K Mahapatra, general manager of Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) of the Indian Ordnance Factory Board, where the .32 pistol is made, said, “Indian customers are very price sensitive. At the same time, they are a bit fascinated by foreign brands. They are willing to acquire a foreign weapon even at a premium. Definitely, there will be competition with the entry of Webley and Scott, UK,” he said.

Mahapatra said the Ordnance Development Centre (R&D wing) of RFI is fully geared up to take up the challenge.

“We have modified our .32 pistol recently based on customer feedback and this has resulted in creating a huge demand for this weapon. RFI is taking action to counter the challenge,” said Mahapatra.

Interestingly, a well-known name in the sports weapons market in India, Syndicate Innovations International Ltd. is also in the process of setting up a plant in Uttar Pradesh to make shotgun barrels and parts using German technology, primarily for export to Turkey and Spain.

“I already have stakes in the German company Kiehberg and have a facility at Ghaziabad. In the future, we will make pump-action shotguns for export as well as local sale. One impediment is the time government departments take to clear files. Also, the recent firearms law which says no Indian can own more than two firearms will affect sales,” said Ashok Rai, owner of Syndicate Innovations.

Arms dealers feel that the entry of foreign manufacturers such as W&S may hit the sales of second-hand foreign-made firearms.

“Indian customers look for new technology. If the prices are right and the production is steady then the local market will be affected,” said Ravi Ahuja, general secretary of All India Arms Dealers Welfare Council.

Full catalogue in pdf...

Any idea when glock is going to launch its products for civilian market .
Had spoken to them they might launch in coming April . If any one has any news please post it ,
Any more foreign companies coming to india . Recently there was a deal between tauras arms and jindal.

Exciting news! First Glock now Webley and Scott. Hope they would offer that revolver with 5 inch barrel, just for ol' time's sake.

That's some good news.

Btw, if Glock and Webley & Scott, start producing for the civilian market, it would seriously hamper IOF's market share,

Nice one TC

That said, Webley & Scott (UK) have not made anything, not even an airgun, for some years!

When India banned civilian imports in 1985-86, they completely ceased production of handguns, as their entire handgun business was based on Indian market demand. The day Indians stopped buying their revolvers and (to a lesser extent shotguns), is the day they shifted their business from firearms to airguns!

Post that landmark event, Webley & Scott did indeed, continue to produce and retail some very nice air rifles and pistols.

However, that production line was also finally put to rest some years ago. Now, to the best of my knowledge, Webley & Scott airguns etc. are completely and totally produced in Turkey. Which is not to say that they are rubbish, they may or may not be. Just that they are no longer British, other than in name.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Just to add to the above, any competition to Indian Ordnance Factory Board, is very welcome!

The ordinance revolver deserves criticism without hesitation and if webley could maintain its quality standards , I don’t think there will be any looking back at ordinance revolver.

They do seem to be rebooting off of the make in India initiative. I really hope they pull it off. Certainly have the first mover advantage. Heck they could give CMT-Glock some competition too by offering Glock Gen 3 clones since the patent for it expired last year. Lots of small manufacturers in US already cranking out new flavors of Glock 19. Now, if Winchester, Hatsan or Beretta could join the race, we'd be set for life

I sent a message to Webley India to know when they were going to launch their pistols & which bores along with the price.
Received a reply from them as below

Revolvers will be available May 2020 onwards
Handguns will be available October 2020 onwards - .45 will be December 2020 onwards
Shotguns will be available January 2021 onwards
Airguns will be available January 2021 onwards

For supply and pricing, we are appointing Master Stockists of Webley across the country and these will be listed on our website very shortly so please monitor this and our Facebook pages for more information.

John Bright
Webley & Scott India
[email protected]
www.webleyscott.in
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/webleyindia/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/webleyindia/

Not sure how accurate this is but this article ->https://nenow.in/popular-stories/webley ... e-hit.html states the revolvers are expected to sell at around 1 lakh and pistol at 2 lakhs. That's almost the same as the second hand stuff right now. So, the 45 will be over 3 lakhs then? They couldn't possibly offer these for export as the prices between international and domestic market would be widely disproportionate. No one outside will pay USD 3,000+ for a regular polymer framed 32 pistol.

I have been in touch with Webley India on the messenger , they replied to queries regarding launch of their products but were not willing to quote the prices . Upon persistent query they have just sent me the approximate price of pistols ( both 32 & 45) 2.75 L ,so I think they should retail close to 3L

partheus wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:41 pm

Not sure how accurate this is but this article ->https://nenow.in/popular-stories/webley ... e-hit.html states the revolvers are expected to sell at around 1 lakh and pistol at 2 lakhs. That's almost the same as the second hand stuff right now. So, the 45 will be over 3 lakhs then? They couldn't possibly offer these for export as the prices between international and domestic market would be widely disproportionate. No one outside will pay USD 3,000+ for a regular polymer framed 32 pistol.

Agree. Also, I wonder why they decided to make the old Webley revolvers. What's the point? Given a choice, people would go for the more modern designs.

These chaps are charging a kings ransom to appoint master stockists. I am sure they will not spend a penny out of their own pocket for the plant that they will or have set up.

Webley made solid revolvers but they lack any safety device that would prevent an accidental discharge if it gets dropped. If the ones being made now are direct copies of the old design you will be able to carry only 5 safely in the chamber.

One lakh for a revolver and 2 lakhs for a pistol...wow. It is only in India that a revolver that is more expensive to make is cheaper than a pistol. 2 lakhs for a .32 pistolThe only words that come to my mind is 'price gouging'. Business ethics and respect for customer certainly don't rank very high in India. These are the same tactics adopted by the IOF. The only good thing is that there would be competition for the IOF. Hopefully these revolvers and pistols will work straight out of the box unlike the IOF stuff.

@winnie, right, but the price list is still to be announced, so let's see what happens. I guess they will try to milk the market for all its worth before other manufacturers start joining the party and drive the prices down. We do have some news about Glock and Taurus along with desi manufacturers like Sheikh arms in the running so hopefully prices would start leveling out soon.