Indians For Guns

Hi friends

I recently discovered the historical connection of my parental french revolver.
i am glad to showcase such an historical antique revolver in this wonderful forum.
i did a lot of research and contacted various French museums as well, which has confirmed the manufacturing of such weapons in the year 1850-70.
i wonder how many such weapons exist in our country till date?

i hope this would throw some light on the antique collection in our country.

sharing few details about the historical relevance of the Gun:

Fine Engraved French LEFAUCHEUX Revolver with FRANCOTTE Marking. ‘0.38 BORE’
Year of manufacturing 1858-65.
Oldest European-made regular service handgun designed for central fire ammunition.
The Lefaucheux was a French military revolver, based on a design by Casimir Lefaucheux. It was the first metallic-cartridge revolver adopted by a national government. It was first fielded in 1858 by the French Navy, and though never issued by the French Army, it was used in limited numbers by the French Cavalry during their 1862 deployment to Mexico. Models were also purchased by Spain, Sweden, Italy, Russia, and Norway. Along with those countries, both the U.S. Confederate and Federal forces also used them in the American Civil War. Some of the models sold to foreign powers kept the original designation, and were produced either at the state arsenal in St. Etienne (MAS), Liege, Belgium, or local producers under license.
The top barrel flat is engraved “A. FRANCOTTE A LIEGE ", the left rear flat is marked "E. LEFAUCHEUX / IN VR BREVETE", the serial number is marked on the lower left side of the frame and there is a "crown / AF" proof on the lower right side of the frame and on the cylinder. On the finely decorated cylinder, AF with a crown, ELG in an oval. It is the marking of Eugene Lefaucheux indicating a manufacture in its workshops of Liege before 1867

It is a beautiful antique revolver. If you could tell something more about it, like from where was it purchased, how many cartridges the chamber holds etc.

goodboy_mentor wrote:It is a beautiful antique revolver. If you could tell something more about it, like from where was it purchased, how many cartridges the chamber holds etc.

it can hold 6 cartridges at a time. the barrel is free only to rotate around the spindle, otherwise it requires a small window to open at the back and load the cartridges one by one. I am not sure how it made existence in India. it was purchased by my father (Ex. Haryana Civil services) from a businessman back in 1970's.
most probably it made its way in the country during 1st or 2nd world war under british rule. Although, these Models were also purchased by Spain, Sweden, Italy, Russia, and Norway.

initially I had contacted these three museums to get some more inputs:
Musée de la Grande Guerre, Meaux.
Mémorial de la Paix, Verdun.
Musée de l’Armée, Paris.

thereafter i was refereed to these French GUN FORUMS:
http://lesgrosbarbares.info/lefaucheux_2-0/index.php
http://blackpowderonly.forumactif.org/forum

From above forums i learned that LEFAUCHEUX weapons are considered to be very PROUD possession in France.

the following particular website tells everything about the legend of LEFAUCHEUX with details of patents and drawings etc.
http://s144812367.onlinehome.fr/

further i have learned the details and significance of various markings on the gun from the following website:
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar ... e%20fr.htm

From the looks of it, this would be proofed for black powder and it would be unsafe to use modern smokeless powder ammunition. Exactly what type of ammunition does this use?

I don't imagine there would be any chance at all of getting fresh ammunition for this. You can explore having this classified as an antique and having it removed from licensing requirements.

mundaire wrote:From the looks of it, this would be proofed for black powder and it would be unsafe to use modern smokeless powder ammunition. Exactly what type of ammunition does this use?

I don't imagine there would be any chance at all of getting fresh ammunition for this. You can explore having this classified as an antique and having it removed from licensing requirements.

i do not know exactly what type of cartridges are used.

but i do have a set of 25 live ones

not sure about the availability these days.

can you suggest the steps to be initiated in order to get it declared antique. i mean is there any legal/ruling to declare such weapons as antique. And they do not require license?

hi friends,
recently joined the forum. since than searching a lot on the forum to acquire knowledge about 0.38.
so far i have learned that there are very few owners of 0.38 here. and being PB its not being discussed extensively.
although there are few threads discussing about 0.38 availability in India (viewtopic.php?t=20819)

but atleast we can share/flaunt our pride possessions in this thread and have a look what all varieties we have in India.

cheers!!

here is one owned by my father since 1980. Fine Engraved French LEFAUCHEUX Revolver with FRANCOTTE Marking. ‘38 BORE’
Year of manufacturing 1858-65. Oldest European-made regular service handgun designed for central fire ammunition.
The Lefaucheux was a French military revolver, based on a design by Casimir Lefaucheux. It was the first metallic-cartridge revolver adopted by a national government. It was first fielded in 1858 by the French Navy, and though never issued by the French Army, it was used in limited numbers by the French Cavalry during their 1862 deployment to Mexico. Models were also purchased by Spain, Sweden, Italy, Russia, and Norway. Along with those countries, both the U.S. Confederate and Federal forces also used them in the American Civil War. Some of the models sold to foreign powers kept the original designation, and were produced either at the state arsenal in St. Etienne (MAS), Liege, Belgium, or local producers under license.
The top barrel flat is engraved “A. FRANCOTTE A LIEGE ", the left rear flat is marked "E. LEFAUCHEUX / IN VR BREVETE", the serial number is marked on the lower left side of the frame and there is a "crown / AF" proof on the lower right side of the frame and on the cylinder. On the finely decorated cylinder, AF with a crown, ELG in an oval. It is the marking of Eugene Lefaucheux indicating a manufacture in its workshops of Liege before 1867

neerajkaty wrote:can you suggest the steps to be initiated in order to get it declared antique. i mean is there any legal/ruling to declare such weapons as antique. And they do not require license?

You have to contact the nearest office of Archaeological Survey of India to register it as antique under The Antiquities and Art Treasures Act, 1972.

Please read Section 45(c) of Arms Act 1959. You may also read discussion in another thread here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15556

It is a beautiful Revolver, very neatly engraved.
A true Collectors Piece.
I have attached a picture of 2 variants of the .380 Cartridge.
Nickel FMJ & Copper FMJ.
They are both in 178 Grain.
The .380 is an obsolete Cartridge and is not available in the market.
They were made during WWII in .38/200 (.38 S&W) for the UK.
The Smith and Wesson catalogue carries this by the name .38/200 British Service Revolver.
The Service Cartridge was called '.380 Revolver'.
.38/200 was adopted in 1922 and discontinued in 1963.
200 denotes ‘Grain’ of the Cartridge.
This Cartridge is not to be confused with any other variant of .38/.380
Enfield Revolvers were also chambered for the .380 and were in use during WW II.
This Cartridge also came in Lead but was discontinued, as it was thought to violate the ‘Hague Convention’ (1899).
The .380 MK II Cartridge were produced by the Ordnance Factory in India also,
This was issued to the Armed Forces. I think it has been discontinued.
The .380 Cartridge is auctioned to Collectors in USA and Europe,
However it is only sold as 1 piece only (for collection purpose).
My Grandfather, who served in WW II had Smith &Wesson ‘Victory’ Model Revolver, chambered for the .380 Revolver Cartridge.

Regards,
Jr.