Indians For Guns

Hello Everyone,

I joined this forum recently. My father owns Mauser HSc which was manufactured in July 1941 in Germany (It is based on some research I did on internet). So, it is World War 2 era gun. The gun has been in my family from 1964. I am looking for some info. regarding Masuer HSCs in India.

Q1. As gun import has been pretty restricted, how would Mauser HSc come to India and through what channels?

Q2. Given that it is WW2 era gun in working condition what would be its current value? Will the value be different in metro city as compared to non-metros

Any other info regarding history for this gun in India would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

MA Sami

hi Mr sami, as u said the above gun is with your family since 1964., it has been import before ban in india ( i e before 1987 ),

your Q2 , for priceing - need to check the condition of the gun

The ban on personal imports was put in place in 1986, prior to that many individuals had imported guns for their own use. These days only renowned shooters and persons coming of TR are allowed to import.

Price depends on condition, but it is a nice pistol and IMHO the price would be above ₹4 - 5 lacs so long as it is in working condition. The better the condition of the piece the more the price you can expect.

Of course there is no MRP for these things, it entirely depends on the buyer and seller.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Thanks for the responses.

Also take a look at this article (below). It will tell you a little bit about the history of the pistol.
It mentions that some serial numbers are more valuable than others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_HSc

Given its 1941 date, it is unlikely to have been a civilian import. My guess would be that it is a captured or "liberated" pistol, brought to India after WW2 by a soldier.

@ xl_target- Thanks for providing the link. I already have done a lot research on internet for Masuer HSc. The forum in http://www.mauserguns.com provides a lot of info regarding the general history about Masuer HSc. What I am looking here is about the history of Mauser HSc in India. From what I learn after going through numerous threads on this forum is Mauser HSc does come up for sale in India every now and then. So there does not seems to be a lot of shortage for these pistols in India. Probably because people got these from abroad before 1980s. Anyone please correct me if I am wrong here.

@TwoRivers- 1941 is the date of manufacture of the gun. It was bought by my grandfather in 1964. So, there is 23 year period where the guns would have changed hands. When you say "it s a captured or liberated pistol" do we have any history in India where guns were liberated from German soldiers in WW2. As far as I know all the action happened in Europe quite far from India.

Also, was doing some search on internet and it seems there was a collaboration between Azad Hind Fauj (Subash Chandra Bose) and Germany during WW2. Is it possible of MauserHSc coming to India through that route? This question is open to the forum.

In the end always appreciate responses from the fellow forum members.

Indian troops fought in North Africa. After the defeat of Germany all weapons were confiscated. It would be highly unlikely for someone to risk death by hiding the pistol and then selling it to someone from India. As for "all the action happened in Europe", did you forget the Burma Campaign? (Not that a Japanese officer would likely have carried a German pistol.) The Azad Hind connection is a possibility. In any case, it is unlikely that the pistol was acquired anytime but during 1941-1945. If there was German diplomatic representation in British India, it could have belonged to a German diplomat.

I did not forget the Burma campaign just did not mention here as Burma campaign was supported by the Japanese. So this gun bein linked to Burma campaign is highly unlikely (as you have already mentioned).

I still don't fully understand your assertion on this gun being brought to India between 1941-45. As imports were not banned anyone would have brought it between 1941 -64

Although if it did belong to a German diplomat it would add to the historic charm of this piece

ma_sami: We can forget about the diplomatic connection, as the war broke out before 1941. After the war broke out, no German arms would have been exported to allied territory. Further, all pistol production would have gone to the German army or police, and high Nazi party members. After Germany's defeat in 1945, any German caught with a firearm would have been executed. All arms were confiscated. Private possession of firearms, and production, was not allowed until the early 1950s. Which leaves us with the 1941-1945 period for the pistol to have gotten into other than German hands. It would be interesting to see if the pistol has German army acceptance marks.
So, my guess would be that the pistol was brought to India by a soldier, or a British civil servant returning after the war.

@ TwoRivers - But then again it leaves a window of 1950-64 during which the gun could have been imported. I agree with you that after looking at the acceptance mark may give a better idea.

I will check them and post the details whenever I have access to the gun. It is with my father right now.

Till then, thanks for your reponses

ma_sami: It does. But it would not have been in commercial channels, only in private possession, and not in Germany. It had to be taken out of Germany no later than 1945. That pretty much leaves us with a capture/surrender, or Azad Hind connection.

I'd bet on the military route, army officers were/ still are exempt from licensing requirements (for one personal firearm) while in service.

It is not/ was not unusual for servicemen to bring back guns as war booty. By WW II, there were already a small number of Indian officers in service. Also post-1947 many departing British officers may have sold/ gifted their personal firearms prior to leaving.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

To add to Abhijit's post;
A very large number of Indian troops fought in WW2. We tend to think about them being mainly in the India-Burma-China theater but in fact Indian troops fought all over the world. There were 2.5 million Indian troops under arms in 1945. They fought in Europe, the middle east and in Africa. As Abhijit mentions, there were even Indian Officers. So a war trophy bring back is very likely.

Mr Sami,
It is interesting to note the academic debate that has been generated on the Mauser Hsc.Import of firearms by dealers and individuals was not banned till the assasination of Smt Indira Gandhi.A loarge number of Mauser rifles and pistols were imported into India till that time. The civilian arms confiscated on the surrender of Germany were sold through commercial channels in all allied countries. For your information,India provided the largest volunteer army numbering 2.5 million who fought on all theaters of war on the allied side.Many of the soldiers brought back firearms with them, as the rules were more liberal at that time,particularly for those who were considered loyal to the British Crown.In course of time , many such firearms changed hands either through direct sale or through dealers.It was a very popular pistol in India till import was banned, as was the Colt1903.