Indians For Guns

Stumbled upon this 15yrs old Kiddo's channel, reviewing here IOF .32 revolver.



In case you are used to reviews by experts here is one gem

There is a saying " guns don't kill people..poeple do", how true. It's people like us who are irresponsible and ,most of the times, have this false sense of machoism of owning guns, and no idea how to own them much less ever fired one.
There was an article in the Washington Post on the 14th Oct regarding toddlers(children in the age group 1 to 3 years) firing handguns. As per a survey mentioned in the article, toddlers have been responsible for killing 2 people, injuring 10, self injuring 18 and self killing 13 across 24 states in 2015. These are huge numbers and point to careless irresponsible parents who have not understood the concept of mature possession of arms.
I am sure we are much more responsible, we don't let our guns be handled by our children till they become teenagers...

Chicky

Hmm..



Here he's gone ahead and fired one right in the air, and not straight up either. Anyways, I'd rather not judge.

I believe that its better for kids to know about firearms and how to use them, safety is the crucial lesson there. I'd rather have my kids know there is a dangerous object, and be familiar with it, than to have something mysterious and thus attractive, which may lead to an accident.

~C

chicky wrote:There is a saying " guns don't kill people..poeple do", how true. It's people like us who are irresponsible and ,most of the times, have this false sense of machoism of owning guns, and no idea how to own them much less ever fired one.
There was an article in the Washington Post on the 14th Oct regarding toddlers(children in the age group 1 to 3 years) firing handguns. As per a survey mentioned in the article, toddlers have been responsible for killing 2 people, injuring 10, self injuring 18 and self killing 13 across 24 states in 2015. These are huge numbers and point to careless irresponsible parents who have not understood the concept of mature possession of arms.
I am sure we are much more responsible, we don't let our guns be handled by our children till they become teenagers...

Chicky

I hope this is a little tongue in cheek. No parent in the US is buying their 2 year old child a gun. Those instances are a toddler coming across a gun, usually a handgun, left loaded and unsecured by a parent.

While someone might get the idea that we have some very depressed toddlers here given the numbers of self injuries / fatalities, bear in mind that most curious two year olds will only have the strength to pull the trigger with their thumb - that means the barrel is generally pointing right at them.

I was introduced to shooting with a 22 rifle at age 7 or so. My oldest turns 5 in a few weeks and will receive his first firearm on his birthday. He will learn safe handling, and the fact that it is a single shot long gun will help. He will also learn safe storage as it, along with all firearms in my house, will be locked in a safe when not in use.

Unfortunately when you allow a lot of freedom you get a lot of irresponsible people who don't respect it. The answer of less freedom as practiced by Indian government seems worse to me than accepting some accidents will happen.

Here it is being zerod before boxing for birthday.

PeterTheFish wrote:I hope this is a little tongue in cheek. No parent in the US is buying their 2 year old child a gun. Those instances are a toddler coming across a gun, usually a handgun, left loaded and unsecured by a parent.

While someone might get the idea that we have some very depressed toddlers here given the numbers of self injuries / fatalities, bear in mind that most curious two year olds will only have the strength to pull the trigger with their thumb - that means the barrel is generally pointing right at them.

I was introduced to shooting with a 22 rifle at age 7 or so. My oldest turns 5 in a few weeks and will receive his first firearm on his birthday. He will learn safe handling, and the fact that it is a single shot long gun will help. He will also learn safe storage as it, along with all firearms in my house, will be locked in a safe when not in use.

Unfortunately when you allow a lot of freedom you get a lot of irresponsible people who don't respect it. The answer of less freedom as practiced by Indian government seems worse to me than accepting some accidents will happen.

Here it is being zerod before boxing for birthday.

Peter,

According to me gifting a 5 year old a firearm is not a good idea at all. The Indian government has made a rule of a minimum age of 21 tears. We may agree or not agree with that rule. The age could be reduced to 18 or ybe 16 years of age, but a firearm for a 5 year old is totally not acceptable.
Also by mentioning it on an open forum may encourage others to do the same.

Atul

aadhaulya wrote: Peter,

According to me gifting a 5 year old a firearm is not a good idea at all. The Indian government has made a rule of a minimum age of 21 tears. We may agree or not agree with that rule. The age could be reduced to 18 or ybe 16 years of age, but a firearm for a 5 year old is totally not acceptable.
Also by mentioning it on an open forum may encourage others to do the same.

Atul

You're welcome to your opinion. Of course it is shaped by your upbringing and culture, as is mine.

We have kids as young as 9 and 10 participating in local club and USPSA matches. By and large these kids are more safe and proficient shooters than most firearm owning adults, in any country I would imagine.

Of course, I do hope by posting this others consider getting their young children involved in shooting - demystifying firearms and making them a normal part of life goes a long way towards guaranteeing our freedom to access them.

PeterTheFish wrote:You're welcome to your opinion. Of course it is shaped by your upbringing and culture, as is mine.

We have kids as young as 9 and 10 participating in local club and USPSA matches. By and large these kids are more safe and proficient shooters than most firearm owning adults, in any country I would imagine.

Of course, I do hope by posting this others consider getting their young children involved in shooting - demystifying firearms and making them a normal part of life goes a long way towards guaranteeing our freedom to access them.

Here in India (North at least) people are proud break rules and boast about it. That is also a very stupid thing to do, as per my thinking. I am sure your upbringing must have been better than mine because my ideals in life are a lot different than most of the others,

Atul

aadhaulya wrote: Here in India (North at least) people are proud break rules and boast about it. That is also a very stupid thing to do, as per my thinking. I am sure your upbringing must have been better than mine because my ideals in life are a lot different than most of the others,

Atul

Not sure what any of this has to do with my post or response? Did I encourage lawbreaking? Did I insult your upbringing?

Ok I am confused here. Are we talking about a 5 year kid being allowed to own a firearm or learning to use it under supervision ??

PeterTheFish wrote:You're welcome to your opinion. Of course it is shaped by your upbringing and culture, as is mine.

Tour observation on my upbringing.

PeterTheFish wrote:

aadhaulya wrote: Here in India (North at least) people are proud break rules and boast about it. That is also a very stupid thing to do, as per my thinking. I am sure your upbringing must have been better than mine because my ideals in life are a lot different than most of the others,
Atul

Chengy wrote:Ok I am confused here. Are we talking about a 5 year kid being allowed to own a firearm or learning to use it under supervision ??

My 15 year old daughter started driving a Tata Safari when she was 12 years old and a lot of her friends have started driving cars. I taught her driving in an open field and never on a public road even if there was no traffic because it is against the law to drive till the age of 18 years. Now after seeing her friends drive she also wants a car which I flatly refused being against the law. I will buy her one the day she is 18. That is the way I am.

I have no issues with teaching children the safe handling and using firearms under supervision but buying a gun for a 5 year old, I do not understand. But anyway there is no point of argument as you mention 'everyone to his own opinion, all I would like to say is please be very careful that I am sure you will be.

I do not know about the USA but in India a 12 year old kid (I think) can fire guns or participate in competitions, under supervision.

Atul

I agree with Aadhulya, it's the maturity of a child which is being talked about. A child is a child , his/her perception of a finality or an event cannot be the same as an adult(generally). We as adults must have patience and maturity(as well) to initiate our young ones into fire arms once they understand the consequences.
As regards the toddlers shooting guns, it is not the fault of the toddlers at all, I would blame their parents and elders for being both irresponsible and careless in storing their arms and for them to be easily assesible to 1year-2 year olds.
Whether it is the US or India, children are innocent lets not make them our duplicates (or how we want them to be) before their time. Lets be responsible parents/elders and store our weapons sensibly.

Chicky

Chengy wrote:Ok I am confused here. Are we talking about a 5 year kid being allowed to own a firearm or learning to use it under supervision ??

Both. Simply because he owns the gun does not mean he will be keeping it loaded at his bedside with a box of ammo anymore than I do mine. It will remain locked up and out of reach when not in use.

To assume that a five year old cannot learn to safely operate a gun is giving them far too little credit.

Peterthefish,
I get your point of view and i dont see anything wrong with what you are saying or doing. Infact, if i were able to, i too would introduce my kids (as and when they come into being) to fire arms and the right and safe way to operate them whenever i think they are ready irrespective of their age. However i was just wondering, wouldn't it be better to start kids off with low powered air rifles, inculcate the habit of safely handling guns and then introduce them to firearms?

Added in 2 minutes 13 seconds:
Btw, your kid is lucky to get that for his fifth birthday

I think its a fair question as to why start them off with a .22 vs. maybe an air rifle to teach safety habits, so I'll talk about that for a moment.

First, before he gets the gift, my five year old has already been introduced to firearms and safety habits, through his own curiousity. It started with me sending match videos while I was out shooting to mom so he could watch, which piqued his curiousity. Now, I shoot A LOT, and that means spending time cleaning and working on guns and reloading ammo. So from time to time he will come to my work bench with his toy tools to come help daddy. At these times I treat him like an adult and explain how they work, safety rules, and of course the danger inherent in misuse. He has memorized the 4 prime safety rules, and knows how to apply them. So then it comes to an air gun / bb gun vs. a .22.

Most BB guns are multishot and somewhat inaccurate - in short they are really toys. I don't want to teach him to shoot with a toy - I think it brings the opportunity to breed bad habits, carelessness, etc...

On the flip side are air-rifles. Not only is a quality single shot air rifle going to cost as much or more than this .22, but they are also going to be 1) Quite a bit heavier (the savage rascal weighs less than 1.5 KG), 2) Impossible for a 5 year old to cock, and 3) Airguns using a spring system actually carry even more recoil than a .22. Trigger quality is also wide ranging from mediocre to good on airguns, and generally on the worse end of that range on low cost models. The savage rascal uses savage's accu-trigger which has a crisp 2.5# break out of the box (easily manageable by a 5 year old) and can be adjusted to a heavier weight if needed.

My first air-rifle at age 7 was a Beeman C1. It weighed nearly 3.5 KG and I couldn't cock it until I was 10 or 11. This meant I needed the assistance of a parent for every shot, and could only shoot prone. Both are problems for children who even at age 5 want to be doing things on their own.

So I came to the decision that it is best to start him on a rifle that is the right size and weight for him, that he can operate totally on his own. It also reduces my workload, allowing me to focus on safety and coaching.

So in short, I think its the right choice, and certainly one amply considered.

Valid points