Indians For Guns

I am planning to buy a Colt Frontier Six-shooter revolver (caliber 44-40 Winchester or .44 WCF) manufactured in 1896 and intended to be used with the black powder cartridges then in vogue.

I would like to know whether modern .44 WCF smokeless ammunition is loaded to the same pressures as the original black powder cartridges and can safely be used in this revolver.

Regards.

I say go ahead buy it.

If the chamber pressure is as the old ammo but I doubt , how you are going to find out.

Give it a good check up and , if you drop down the new ammo to the old, I say open up the
New ammo and/or get a good chroney meter to find out the velocity, then decide.

IMHO, the modern cowboy loads, developed for cowboy action shooting were designed to be accomodated in old/vintage as well as replica "cowboy" guns. Whether the currently imported .44-40 Ammo is of this above loading is to be verified. This is because there are two loadings for this caliber, one was for the old vintage revolvers of a lower pressure and power and then later to obtain better ballistics in a rifle/ carbine a higher pressure loading was developed. Although originally a blackpowder loading, there are several smokeless powder loadings that are designed to safely fire in these old revolvers.
Also in the ammo import list for dealers, the .44-40 / .44 Winchester ammo is listed under the rifle category if I am not mistaken.
hope this helps,
Anand

miroflex wrote:I am planning to buy a Colt Frontier Six-shooter revolver (caliber 44-40 Winchester or .44 WCF) manufactured in 1896 and intended to be used with the black powder cartridges then in vogue.

I would like to know whether modern .44 WCF smokeless ammunition is loaded to the same pressures as the original black powder cartridges and can safely be used in this revolver.

Regards.

Not a revolver but a rifle. However vedio proves its not safe.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hammerhead : thanks for your positive recommendation to buy this revolver.

Anand: thanks for your opinion.

You are right about the .44 WCF cartridge being included in the DGFT's list of ammunition which dealers in India are allowed to import. The
cartridge is stocked by several dealers. That is a positive inducement to buy the revolver, provided modern ammunition can safely be used in it.

Regards.

I would like to hear from other members also.

Modern smokeless .44-40 ammunition is loaded to pressures compatible with the old firearms it was originally chambered for. The old high-velocity smokeless loads for stronger rifles have long since been discontinued. Go for it if the revolver is in good condition.
The video only proves that idiots can blow up anything if they try hard enough. Modern .44-40 cartridges are not loaded with an overcharge of a fast burning pistol powder.

Thank you very much for your helpful post. I am grateful for the information and advice given by you.

Be aware of the load that you will be using, old black powder ammo when compared to modern smokeless powder,is half in the performance, and smokeless powder has high pressure as compared to the black powder, so if u r planing to use smokeless ammo then must use extreme precaution, as modern ammo can blow the chamber due to high pressure..

Vidhu dubey

Nonsense. The ammunition is loaded to give the same pressure and performance as the original black powder load. It is perfectly safe to fire in an older gun in good condition. "Smokeless" powder comes in a large variety of burn speed and pressure properties. Your advice would apply if the ammunition were loaded by an ignorant reloader; ammunition manufacturers know what they are doing.

My advice was for the reloaders, not for the users those purchase the ammo

Vidhu dubey

Reloading can be done using the standard load of 40 grains of black powder (as per the nomenclature .44-40) and cast bullets.

I cannot speak to ammunition loaded in India, but I can tell you modern ammunition loaded with smokeless propellant made in the USA (and SAMMI compliant) as well as the same ammunition manufactured in any of the C.I.P. compliant European countries MUST NEVER BE USED IN FIREARMS MANUFACTURED TO USE BLACK POWDER AMMUNITION.

Modern, smokeless propellant ammunition develops working pressures that are dangerously excessive in older firearms originally manufactured to be used with black powder cartridges.

The use of modern ammunition in a firearm intended for use with black powder ammunition can result in injury or death of the shooter and bystanders.

Kynoch makes and sells cartridges in "Nitro For Black" loads that use modern smokeless propellants but are meant to be used in firearms that were originally meant to be used black powder cartridges. Two Rivers' information is that modern .44 WCF ammunition is loaded with smokeless propellants to develop the same pressures as the original black powder cartridges.

Added in 19 minutes 31 seconds:
The SAAMI website displays a list of unsafe firearm-ammunition combinations. It emphasizes that .44-40 Winchester High Velocity ammunition is unsafe for use in revolvers and pistols chambered for the .44-40 Winchester cartridge.

Kyrie wrote:I cannot speak to ammunition loaded in India, but I can tell you modern ammunition loaded with smokeless propellant made in the USA (and SAMMI compliant) as well as the same ammunition manufactured in any of the C.I.P. compliant European countries MUST NEVER BE USED IN FIREARMS MANUFACTURED TO USE BLACK POWDER AMMUNITION.

Modern, smokeless propellant ammunition develops working pressures that are dangerously excessive in older firearms originally manufactured to be used with black powder cartridges.

The use of modern ammunition in a firearm intended for use with black powder ammunition can result in injury or death of the shooter and bystanders.

From where did you obtain such wisdom? Modern smokeless ammunition for the old blackpowder cartridges still loaded today is loaded to pressures compatible with and safe in the original firearms. Bot SAAMI and CIP specify very low pressures for cartridges of that era, such as the .44-40 WCF. High velocity loadings for the .44-40 have not been produced since WWII. The currently loaded ammunition is safe to shoot in the older guns.