US Army looking for a new handgun

[xl_target]

Among other things, the US Army is facing constant complaints about the Beretta's from soldiers using them.

It’s official, the U.S. Army is in the market for a new handgun.

The military branch formally signaled it is hunting for the replacement to the Beretta M9 in June when it issued a Request for Information, initiating the search for a new sidearm. Though this is not the first indication the army and other service branches were moving in the direction of replacing the 9x19mm pistol.

According to National Defense Magazine, the Air Force initiated a joint project with the Army in 2008, known as the Modular Handgun System. The project investigated potential replacements for the M9 that were currently available on the market. And the undertaking kicked the door wide open for the new sidearm, not limiting competing models on calibers or features.

In fact, an RFI filed in January by the Army was extremely vague in exactly what the service branches were searching for in a handgun. The only hard information on the project, according to Defense Media Network, were the standards by which the handguns would be evaluated.

The article stated, the Army would assess competing handguns at ranges from 0 to 50 meters and in ballistic gelatin 0- to 14-inches thick. The accuracy standard for competitors, a 90-percent or better probability of a hit on a 4-inch circle at 50 meters from a test fixture. The potential replacement also must have a rating of 2,000 mean rounds between stoppages and 10,000 mean rounds between failure.

According to The Washington Times, the Army plans on evaluating .45ACP, .357 SIG and .40 S&W in the selection process. There is also talk of looking into features such as night sights and Picatinny Rails.

Spurring the drive for a new service pistol has been consistent complaints about the M9 by soldiers. Servicemen have repeatedly express a lack of confidence in the handgun, this has included complaints by soldiers who served in Afghanistan about the 9mm NATO round being underpowered.

There is also a push to make a more resilient handgun. The M9 has been criticized for breaking too easily. And there has been discussion of extending the lifetime of the new pistol past its predecessor. The M9 is reported to have a 17,000-round service life. The Army would like the new handgun to last 25,000 to 35,000 rounds.

The winner of the new government contract has the potential to reap a windfall with the Army planning on purchasing 400,000 new pistols, according to Military.com. Presently, there are some 200,000 M9s in service.

The move to replace the Army’s service pistol has drawn criticism from some corners. It has been pointed out by some that the project comes in the midst of defense-spending cuts. It also comes on the heels of the Army’s fruitless campaign to replace the M4 Carbine.

The M9 has been a somewhat controversial firearm since the Army adopted it in 1985. The handgun rubbed many the wrong way since it displaced the M1911A1, which was the service branch’s sidearm of choice since 1911.

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[Commonwealth_of_PA]

9mm is an excellent round. It is not an excellent round in pointed FMJ from a handgun. We either need to go to SWC (since we won't do HP) or go back to a bigger bullet. There is an obvious caliber threshold in non-spitzer pointed FMJ bullets at pistol velocities that 9mm does not meet.

[timmy]

Interesting, as the article says, due to the extreme DoD budget cuts.

I have heard that one of the reasons for the replacement of the 1911 was that the military's inventory was worn out. I also wonder if the move to an all volunteer force with male and female soldiers, sailors, and marines meant that someone recognized the limitations of the 1911 in small feminine hands.q

What I would be interested in regarding what you've posted, XL, is what the rationale is for this new search and prospective purchase. It is said that so few battlefield casualties are attributable to sidearms. However, I am wondering if the house-to-house actions occurring during the last 15 years have something to do with this reassessment, and also, whether there is some sort of system, such as a pistol-submachine gun combination that is being sought.

We shall see!

[hvj1]

If 1911 were phased out in 1985, assuming that they were phased out in a maximum period of five years then the present handguns must be in service since the last 24 years. Now obviously they need to be replaced if each handgun has fired 1000 rounds a year!
The Berettas which we used for the ARA shooting during the 1990s, started giving way after approximately 20,000 rounds.
In light of the above, the US requirement of 25000 to 30000 round life seems to be very valid and reasonable.
My opinion is that the 9mm was an excellent choice, since the recoil handling was far smoother than .45. This factors in well with the average skills of the average soldier.
One may argue for stopping power and hence favor the higher calibers such as the .50 used by the Secret Service, but then those chaps have a far higher skill level commensurate to their duty requirements.
I personally feel that the 9mm was an extremely wise choice.

[nagarifle]

they should take up CZ75, failing 1911

[timmy]

If 1911 were phased out in 1985, assuming that they were phased out in a maximum period of five years then the present handguns must be in service since the last 24 years. Now obviously they need to be replaced if each handgun has fired 1000 rounds a year!
The Berettas which we used for the ARA shooting during the 1990s, started giving way after approximately 20,000 rounds.
In light of the above, the US requirement of 25000 to 30000 round life seems to be very valid and reasonable.
My opinion is that the 9mm was an excellent choice, since the recoil handling was far smoother than .45. This factors in well with the average skills of the average soldier.
One may argue for stopping power and hence favor the higher calibers such as the .50 used by the Secret Service, but then those chaps have a far higher skill level commensurate to their duty requirements.
I personally feel that the 9mm was an extremely wise choice.

This sounds reasonable, Hemant.

[xl_target]

I don't think that there is any question that whatever sidearm is chosen, it will most likely be a 9mm handgun.

The question of durability is probably important as well as (to a certain extent) size.
However, like the test that ended in the selection of the Beretta, which many people think won the contract due to cost and politics; it's is hard to say whether a handgun will win on its merit alone. So the choice of handgun that the US Army will end up with is anyone's guess.

After all the testing, they might just elect to keep the Beretta as there might not be a significant gain in performance and durability produced by any other handgun.

[farook]

xl_target, I believe the fnx was to be adopted by the US army a few years back. Though it passed all the rigorous tests, for some reasons was not adopted. Would you having more information on this....

[hvj1]

I don't think that there is any question that whatever sidearm is chosen, it will most likely be a 9mm handgun.

The question of durability is probably important as well as (to a certain extent) size.
However, like the test that ended in the selection of the Beretta, which many people think won the contract due to cost and politics; it's is hard to say whether a handgun will win on its merit alone. So the choice of handgun that the US Army will end up with is anyone's guess.

After all the testing, they might just elect to keep the Beretta as there might not be a significant gain in performance and durability produced by any other handgun.

Quite true, however, politics being an entirely different animal, one may never be sure which way and how wayward its jump will be. But I doubt any bunch of politicians in the US would transcend the lines drawn by the user requirements and it may eventually boil down back to the Berretta. Which I sincerely hope they do, having used them extensively, I rue not owning one of them sweeties.

[timmy]

However, like the test that ended in the selection of the Beretta, which many people think won the contract due to cost and politics; it's is hard to say whether a handgun will win on its merit alone. So the choice of handgun that the US Army will end up with is anyone's guess.

It is always easy to claim politics in these sorts of matters, whether military or civilian, and whether it is true or not.

In any human endeavor that includes a number of people and a large amount of money, it would be truly astounding if politics were not involved!

[farook]

Found this video, slightly dated but still relevant....

As of today I would vote for this one....http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/handgu ... -tactical/

[xl_target]

I don't know if the FNX was around when the last tests were done.
From what I heard, the SIG P226 won the test but lost out due to cost and politics.
However, this could be just so much Internet babble.

Sorry Hemant, I know a lot of people like the Beretta 92 but I am not a fan. The cut-out slide, the heft and the size of the grip are turn off's for me.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Army has done this before and not selected another handgun. They have also run a carbine test and not selected a replacement for the M4.

[Vikram]

I saw an FNX here when I went to get my XD. I loved it. Bloody well built. Only issue of sorts is the size of the beast. It is BIG. It is an exceptionally well made and designed pistol, IMO. If I have the money, I would get it in a blink.

Best-
Vikram

[ckkalyan]

This is going to be one heck of a search/match/replace exercise...I did not realize until now that the US Armed Forces had the Beretta as their sidearm for 25 unbroken, years - Wow!

[brihacharan]

This is going to be one heck of a search/match/replace exercise...I did not realize until now that the US Armed Forces had the Beretta as their sidearm for 25 unbroken, years - Wow!

> I too thought it was the "COLT 45 ACP"
> A further search revealed this>>>>

The standard issue side arm for the US military has been and continues to be the Colt M1911 pistol.
History
In 1911 John Moses Browning of Colt designed the M1911 for submission to the Army as part of its procurement process for a new handgun. The final test of the proposed handguns was to fire 6,000 rounds from one pistol with coiling by dunking in water when the barrel got hot. The Colt passed with no malfunctions while the Savage failed the test. The M1911 is a .45 caliber pistol designed for greater stopping power than the .38 caliber pistol the Army was using. This first design was produced until after World War II when it was replaced by a new design with a shorter barrel and aluminum frame. Over 2 million M1911 pistols have been produced.

In the 1980’s the M1911 began to be replaced within the military by Beretta 9mm handguns. The M1911 remains the handgun of choice for Special Forces units due to its stopping power. Recently M1911’s are re-entering service beginning with the Marines. The M1911 is a preferred weapon for competition shooting as well as police forces and international militaries...
Ref: defense.about.com/od/Army/a/Military-Handguns.htm
Briha