Indians For Guns

Friends, I have been a lurker in this forum for quite sometime but have only joined recently.I have gone through most posts but still needs to post this for closure.I have recently got my NPB handgun license .I am from the NorthEast and am used to shooting .22 LR rifle and shotguns(my fathers) .My prime concern is SELF_DEFENSE, and all other considerations come a distant second( eg look, bragging power,price). I have already rejected the idea of foreign weapons as they are damn old, likely reworked and not worth their cost( eg a Model 16 Unique pistol ~ 1937made for rs 6.5 lacs, a 1944made Beretta .32 pistol for rs 5.5 lacs, a Taurus .32 for 4.5, a 50 years Webley revolver for 4.5 lacs etc)though i can afford them.I thought of IOF Nirbheek .32 but since its single action according to Wiki, its out.Now whats left is IOF .32 revolver short and long barrel or IOF .32 Ashani pistol.What would members with EXPERIENCE with these IOF weapons advise pl?

Advise Well as you can see you have no choice. One buys the iof revolver for a few reasons, one of them is as it shoots a 32 SW L ammo, you can buy it at your state rifle association without having it entered in your license. It has a shoddy built quality, worst ever trigger pull and a 1950 front opening latch.

The accuracy of any gun is dependent mainly on how Crisp the trigger is. For anyone here who owns a custom made 1911 that's the main reason why they pay 5x the price.

How is ashani, well it shoots ok, has quite a bit of a flip, not really the prettiest of pistols, construction quality is poor, the trigger is bad, out of the factory cant be dismantled and if you do the warranty is void. As I said we have no choice. I believe Nagri has made a proposal to let us import one pistol and if that happens I would give you my asani for free....

buy a revolver if your primary focus is self-defense. Ashani pistol is no good, I have personally seen Ashani jam numerous times during 40 shots but .32 revolver (iof kanpur made) kept on firing.

ashani malfunctions a lot. (sometimes due to improper loading and mostly due to poorly finished cartridges produced by iof) ejection problems are common; weak wrist also causes improper recoil function and thus malfunctions can occur.

there is a video on youtube where person couldn't pull the slide in given time and was killed was assailants. Also, keeping one in the chamber of pistol is considered risky and in some cases have led to unintentional death/murders. (human error always plays it's part)

in case of revolver, you can keep the chamber empty which is directly aligned with barrel. but when you need to fire, you will press trigger and automatically the next loaded chamber with align with barrel and fire. (a lot more safe and reliable)

As far as cartridge capacity is concerned, don't worry as usual self-defense encounters last for few seconds. culprit will either run or die cuz of your bullets. culprit will never ever stand against weapon even if he/she has his own weapon. he/she will fire on you if he can't escape or for escaping but if he can run then he will never stay and participate. (so about 5 shots are enough, but always keeping few extra, just in case you need to reload-this scenario can only occur if assailant has intention of doing bodily harm/killing-and then in this case you must use semi-auto or fully auto large capacity weapon which is only available on PB license)

One can also load a revolver in 7 seconds...u just need to hav speed loader..thts it..for self defence always go for reliability nd tht is revolver..iof taking booking of mk4 revolver..u should try tht..I had also applied for tht on 23/1/14..nd im also frm northeast...

farook wrote:Advise Well as you can see you have no choice. One buys the iof revolver for a few reasons, one of them is as it shoots a 32 SW L ammo, you can buy it at your state rifle association without having it entered in your license. It has a shoddy built quality, worst ever trigger pull and a 1950 front opening latch.

The accuracy of any gun is dependent mainly on how Crisp the trigger is. For anyone here who owns a custom made 1911 that's the main reason why they pay 5x the price.

How is ashani, well it shoots ok, has quite a bit of a flip, not really the prettiest of pistols, construction quality is poor, the trigger is bad, out of the factory cant be dismantled and if you do the warranty is void. As I said we have no choice. I believe Nagri has made a proposal to let us import one pistol and if that happens I would give you my ahasani for free....

@farookji, problem is , at this point new gunseekers like myself have no access to 'custom built' 1911s...the ones that are available are minimum 30years old with suspect lineage, most foreign ones are 50-80 years old.Common sense tells me, even if IOF is below world standards their new guns gotta have better and assured performance than those golden oldies? I believe tens of thousands of state police officers are armed with IOF handguns..

The state police and army does use the Indian made browning Hi Power and Insas respectively. Yes getting a good imported weapon at this point of time is near impossible in India. There is some hope though. As per the recent notification of customs imported weapons got under transfer of residence can now be sold after 10 year of import or after the licensee has attained the age of sixty. Hope to see some good ones coming in the market and for reasonable prices...





http://www.customsmumbaiairport.gov.in/ ... ?LinkID=67

Go for FGK short barrel revolver it is better and I am having one although it has tight trigger but I never have any problems Anmol or long barrel is more difficult to carry .It has better metal than SAF revolver .Revover is better for self defence than pistols .Pistols r more attractive but even best of pistols have jamming problems.After buying revolver but gets it cleaned properly if need from a dealer for amno always buy new ones u have right ass customer to see that dealer is cutting the seal in front of u.

dsingh wrote:Go for FGK short barrel revolver it is better and I am having one although it has tight trigger but I never have any problems Anmol or long barrel is more difficult to carry .It has better metal than SAF revolver .Revover is better for self defence than pistols .Pistols r more attractive but even best of pistols have jamming problems.After buying revolver but gets it cleaned properly if need from a dealer for amno always buy new ones u have right ass customer to see that dealer is cutting the seal in front of u.

dsinghji, are you telling to buy the NIRBHEEK revolver? is it not having Single-Action trigger?

farook wrote:The accuracy of any gun is dependent mainly on how Crisp the trigger is. For anyone here who owns a custom made 1911 that's the main reason why they pay 5x the price.

It is often said that most shooters are overly trigger conscious, and I think that is true. Having said that, the high cost of a custom 1911 is for:

Fitting the slide so that it fits to the frame with minimal play, but also works smoothly with minimal friction

Fitting the end of the barrel to the bushing so that minimal play is achieved, yet no binding occurs.

Both of these steps eliminate "slop" and ensure that, when the action is in battery and ready to fire, the barrel will be pointing to exactly the same point of aim with regard to the rest of the pistol.

Also, the link needs to be fitted to the barrel lug with minimal tolerance, and the lug needs to work in the frame without binding.

The barrel, when against the feed ramp when the slide is recoiled, must align with the feed ramp smoothly.

The extractor must be burr free.

The purpose here is to ensure that the pistol will feed, chamber, and eject any ammunition (including bullets with different shapes) with total reliability. It should even feed and eject empties.

A lightened hammer is desired. A light hammer will speed up the lock time and disturb the aim of the pistol less than a heavy one. However, the gunsmith doing the custom work must ensure that the pistol will still fire all ammunition reliably.

The trigger work must include fitting the trigger to the frame so that it fits without play, yet does not bind. The trigger must not have any overtravel.

The trigger should break quickly and not drag.

Enough tension must remain to ensure against the pistol discharging accidentally.

There is quite a bit of work that goes into this, far more than just a "trigger job."

Once a customer pays for all of this work, they will usually expect a gun that doesn't look like it's been used as a hammer on a roofing job. So the gunsmith will spend some time polishing it and finishing it, so that the appearance will reflect what's been done inside.

All of this costs a pretty fair sum of money.

Whatever you get, Chengis, it sounds as if you have some money to spend on a handgun. If you are committed to on IOF revolver or Ashani (which is not an unreasonable choice, given the situation), I would suggest you locate a reputable gunsmith (not some shoemaker) and have him work over what you buy. Revolver or pistol, it will benefit from some attention to the fit and function of the mechanism, and you will appreciate the resulting performance, if the work is done correctly.

timmy wrote:

Whatever you get, Chengis, it sounds as if you have some money to spend on a handgun. If you are committed to on IOF revolver or Ashani (which is not an unreasonable choice, given the situation), I would suggest you locate a reputable gunsmith (not some shoemaker) and have him work over what you buy. Revolver or pistol, it will benefit from some attention to the fit and function of the mechanism, and you will appreciate the resulting performance, if the work is done correctly.

@timmy: thanks for ur valuable and detailed advice. Actually i am not exactly a wealthy man but i see a good gun as a lifetime(and lifesaving)investment, hence am willing to scrape up whatever sum is needed to get a good one My 'choice' of IOF handguns is a beggars choice..in the absence of a better one.If i was abroad, i would have preferred a 17-round semi-auto from a reputed brand; Now that Ashani performance sound skittish, what would you suggest between the 5inch barrel .32 iof revolver and the 3-inch one? I have a leaning towards the longer barrel bcos of its supposedly better shooting/handling dynamics and firepower even if less concealable..?

Chengis:

I would tend toward the 3" version for your choice. The 5" would be good if you are going to spend time at the range and do a fair amount of shooting.

You are noting the issue in India: you can find expensive, older foreign-made weapons, or go with a new IOF weapon, and your choice with IOF (speaking in terms of self-defense) boils down to a .32 ACP Ashani or an IOF revolver in .32 S&W Long.

The 5" barrel will get you some improved ballistics and a longer sight radius, that is true. But I doubt that, in an unfortunate scenario, you are going to have a lot of time to make use of that long sight radius.

Back to the market issue, a lot of foreign guns are posted on IFG, and we all like to look at interesting guns. The truth is, for a true gun lover, there is always something else to buy that we can't justify or afford buying at any particular time -- in that sense, we are all in the same boat as gun lovers. But in India, the Ashani and the IOF are both so expensive, compared to what's available in other countries, that it is no wonder that buyers cringe and the super-high price for old designs that have some questionable quality control issues.

From a political perspective, discussing this is a valid topic.

But for someone who needs a self-defense handgun today in India, it is a waste of time. What is available is what is available, and there's nothing that will change this, at least in the short term. So I think you are best off getting the most suitable weapon you are willing to pay for.

I can't tell you that I have shot either the Ashani or the IOF. I do have a Czech CZ50 in .32 ACP and own and have shot a number of other pistols and revolvers. My take would lean toward the IOF in 3" barrel, finding someone who can refine the operation of the weapon as best as you can, and then a heavy emphasis on shooting the thing at the range as much as possible. You cannot possibly practice too much. At least it is fun!

timmy wrote:It is often said that most shooters are overly trigger conscious, and I think that is true.

[quote=
@farookji, problem is , at this point new gunseekers like myself have no access to 'custom built' 1911s...the ones that are available are minimum 30years old with suspect lineage, most foreign ones are 50-80 years old.Common sense tells me, even if IOF is below world standards their new guns gotta have better and assured performance than those golden oldies? I believe tens of thousands of state police officers are armed with IOF handguns.. [/quote]

I tend to disagree with your concern over guns that aren't new. In my collection that I carry on a daily basis I have a Pre War (WWII) Walther PP in .22 and a PPK clone in 380 made in the early 70's. Neither gun was new to me, and both of these plus my farm guns - a Charter Arms Pathfinder of 1980 vintage and a S&W Regulation Police in .38 S&W all still serve me well to this day and I don't feel disadvantaged by not carrying a brand new pistol

SARGE7402 wrote:

I tend to disagree with your concern over guns that aren't new. In my collection that I carry on a daily basis I have a Pre War (WWII) Walther PP in .22 and a PPK clone in 380 made in the early 70's. Neither gun was new to me, and both of these plus my farm guns - a Charter Arms Pathfinder of 1980 vintage and a S&W Regulation Police in .38 S&W all still serve me well to this day and I don't feel disadvantaged by not carrying a brand new pistol

@Sarge: I get where u r coming from, but u must not take my comment at its face value.You have to understand the statement was in the Indian firearms context_ a country that does not have the mass culture of gunbearing, gunsmithing, gunsports and guncaring at the same level as, say the US, both by tradition and restrictive laws imposed by the Brits and then the Indian govt.Thus what you have currently are decades-old guns whose origins,care, smithing and ownership(s)is opaque at best( i am talking in general).In fact i found myself having more knowledge of the guns that i was perusing than the arms dealers holding them lol! Hence my relative hesitation to entrust my life to a weapon which may or may not perform as expected when called upon to do so.The case may be different in the US( where u seem to hail from) where your old gun may have passed just 1-2 hands in relatively good care therefore age of the weapon may not matter.

perhaps more experienced members can give an opinion on this piece up for sale( ~6.5 Lacs Rs).Though the dealer didnt know much, it seems (internet)to be a Model 16 "Unique" pistol by Armes Des Pyrenees Hendaye, A French company that no longer exist. a model made prior to Nazi occupation of France.Its got an 8-round mag, is double action, and tho i havent fired it yet( election code) it functions smoothly with no loose parts or sounds, the barrel smooth. any idea if its genuine or worth it?