Indians For Guns

I was a bit surprised to know that Glock weren't in the top five.What this link shows is the top ten selling handgun makes than individual models.Interesting nevertheless.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/multimed ... ns/?page=1

Hi vikram
i was not surprised.in most delayed blow back pistols they use browning cam lock system.where slide have to travel back and disingage from lockig lugs or from ejection port in this process brrel lifts.where as in berretta locking lugs go down in frame but barrel is straigt position of target.this system is not new it was used in p38 pistols.surprise why berretta 92fs got its positions as most selling hand guns.american army also uses 92fs as side arms.indian army is using them as side arms.glock pistols are among police dippartment butt.they are prone to jamming.may be indian ammo for cause

Only one revolver out of top 10 selling handguns in USA...that's interesting

-Nishith

The title is misleading. It should be Top ten handgun manufacturers not top ten handguns.

Vikram,
As far as Glocks go, keep in mind that this just represents the Glock models made in the USA. There a lot of Austrian made Glocks being sold in the US.

Kumarnishith wrote:Only one revolver out of top 10 selling handguns in USA...that's interesting

-Nishith

It looks like these results were for 2011. They are just showing representative guns for each manufacturer and not actual sales by model.

I'd be willing to bet S&W sold more of their M&P series of semi auto pistols than anything else.
With SIG, I'd be willing to bet that they sold more P226's than P229's but they have an assortment of popular models
WIth Ruger, if the P89 was such a big seller, they wouldn't have dropped it. They don't even offer any of their P Series handguns now. If half of them are 9mm, they were selling the SR series and their pocket pistols like the LC9. The LCP and their various .22's sell like hotcakes too. They also sell a lot of revolvers.

I'd love to see the actual stats that this report was based on.

glock pistols are among police dippartment butt.they are prone to jamming.may be indian ammo for cause

Actually Glocks are some of the most reliable pistols made. If you have seen them jam, it is most probably ammo related.
Glocks, when they first came out, pretty much redefined what handgun reliability was all about.

ashokgodara:

I'm afraid that you are quite mistaken regarding the actions of semi automatic pistols:

ashokgodara wrote:in most delayed blow back pistols they use browning cam lock system.where slide have to travel back and disingage from lockig lugs or from ejection port in this process brrel lifts.

The Browning system, as exemplified by the 1911 and the Browning Hi Power, are not delayed blowback systems at all. They are correctly termed short recoil systems, as the action remains solidly locked until after the bullet leaves the barrel and the great majority of gas pressure is vented to the atmosphere by the exit of the bullet. The inertia of the slide then continues and the tipping of the rear of the barrel, by link or cam surface, disengages the barrel's locking from the slide after the slide has traveled a short distance.

This is called a short recoil system to differentiate the action from Browning's long recoil system, as used in the Browning A5 shotgun or Remington Model 8 rifle. In this action, the barrel and bolt travel rearwards fully, while locked together, and then the barrel is released to permit ejection of the spent shell, followed by the bolt releasing to pick up a fresh round from the magazine and reload the weapon.

ashokgodara wrote:where as in berretta locking lugs go down in frame but barrel is straigt position of target.this system is not new it was used in p38 pistols.surprise why berretta 92fs got its positions as most selling hand guns.american army also uses 92fs as side arms.indian army is using them as side arms.glock pistols are among police dippartment butt.they are prone to jamming.may be indian ammo for cause

Again, this is incorrect, as neither the Walther P38 or the Beretta 92 are delayed blowback systems, either. They are also both short recoil systems. However, unlike the Browning short recoil system, the barrel of these pistols does not tip, but recoils in line with the slide for a short distance. The barrel has a lug in which a locking block pivots at the front. When the action is in battery, the locking block is in the raised position, where arms engage the slide on the sides, locking the barrel and slide together. When the pistol is fired, the locked slide and barrel recoil reward, locked together, until an unlocking pin in the barrel lug strikes a surface in the frame. The unlocking pin protruding, engages a ramp in the surface of the locking block and forces it down. Thus the barrel stops when the unlocking pin's rear surface strikes the frame, and the slide is unlocked by the unlocking pin forcing down the locking block. At this point. the slide continues rearward, accomplishing extraction and ejection of the empty case, and then moves forward to pick up a fresh round, load it into the chamber, and then move the whole barrel slide assembly forward, where the locking block is forced upward by a ramp on the bottom of the locking block striking a surface on the frame. This locks the action and readies it for firing again.

The Walther P38 and the Beretta 92 have essentially the same locking short recoil system.

You should recognize that blowback and delayed blowback systems have nothing that positively locks the slide or bolt to the barrel/chamber of a firearm. The blowback system has the recoil spring and the inertia of the slide or bolt that holds the action closed long enough for the bullet to exit the barrel and vent its pressure to the atmosphere before the case is extracted from the chamber. In a delayed recoil system, there is a mechanical advantage conferred by cams, rollers, or other mechanisms that increase the inertial effect of the slide and/or the the recoil spring. The barrel in these actions does not move. But there is no positive lock keeping the action closed as there is in a 1911 Browning tipping barrel short recoil system or in the tipping locking block short recoil P38 type system.

The barrel is often fixed in gas operated semi auto and automatic systems, like the M16/M4 and AK47 systems, but in this case, a rotating bolt (or tipping bolt, as in other systems) is unlocked by a piston, which is powered by gas tapped from a port in the barrel, or bled directly and impinging on the bolt. Still, in all of these cases, the action is kept locked until it is released by mechanical or gas pressure action, after which the bullet has already left the barrel.

In other words, when you are talking about locking lugs in an action, you are not talking about a blowback or delayed blowback action.

That's interesting information, Vikram. I am not surprised by the dominance of semi autos, as there is just too much in their favor for the revolver to thrive in the market. For what people buy handguns for, the pistol fulfills their needs better than a revolver.

Kumarnishith wrote:Only one revolver out of top 10 selling handguns in USA...that's interesting

It's not that only one revolver cracks the top ten that is interesting, it is which one cracks the top 10: the S&W Model 29. It handles a round that is beyond what so many semi autos will handle. Remember that the slide of a semi auto striking the stop at the rearmost travel point also adds to the force of recoil, and for a lot of handgun shooters, recoil is an issue in their ability to control the firearm. This issue becomes even more pronounced as the power of the chambered cartridge increases. The revolver doesn't suffer from that problem and with its weight-forward design, makes the heavy recoiling cartridges a little more manageable than the semi auto format permits.

It's also interesting the 9mm and .40 semi autos have become so prevalent, as their more compact cartridges lend themselves to high capacity magazines better than "fatties," like the 45 ACP. Despite all of the Jeff Cooper disciples, many gun buyers are steering clear of the old 1911 and the 45 ACP for newer designs.

For myself, I would never give up my 1911 or old Colt revolvers for this modern stuff -- I love what I have. The new stuff doesn't have that classic look and feel that I like, and for me, that's what I like and want. I'm not like the majority of buyers, however -- that's certainly clear!

It makes sense that, after over 100 years, the gun buying public is largely moving away from 100+ year old designs, no matter how good, reliable, and yes, lovely they are!

Nice to read it. But what about Indian( all hard to find)

Despite all of the Jeff Cooper disciples, many gun buyers are steering clear of the old 1911 and the 45 ACP for newer designs.

Well Yes and No, Tim.
The 1911 is till hugely popular. Look at Kimber, apart from the Solo, the 1911 is about all they offer for handguns.

xl_target wrote:

Despite all of the Jeff Cooper disciples, many gun buyers are steering clear of the old 1911 and the 45 ACP for newer designs.

Well Yes and No, Tim.
The 1911 is till hugely popular. Look at Kimber, apart from the Solo, the 1911 is about all they offer for handguns.

Yes, on reflection, "steering clear" is too strong of a term. But I will say that I don't hear the terms "9mm means 9 might make it" like I used to hear 25 years ago, when the 1911 ruled as king. Back then, it seemed to me that many folks watched from the sidelines, as the 1911 ruled the roost. But when compact DA 9mms with the capacity of a High Power started turning up, and police forces started going to the 9mm, I really think that the landscape changed. No longer was the 1911 the only handgun to consider.

For myself, the 1911 will always be the king. But I know a lot of people hated them -- many folks from WW2 despised them intensely as being hard to control.

The rumors swished around for years that the military would recant and dump the 92 and go back to the 1911, even as late as the recent round of wars, but it was not going to happen. Our military did not feel as if all of our wars since WW1 were one with the 1911 single-handedly, and had moved on a long time ago.

I think that there will always be a place for the 1911 and the 45 ACP. When one considers the design and how accurate the development of the system has become, one has to come to the conclusion that hardly any handgun has had the advantage of so much refinement, and it could be thought unlikely that any other handgun ever will. Such efforts are likely to make the 1911 last for a long, long time. But I don't think it is any longer at the zenith of handguns that it once occupied in the minds of many.

I'll readily admit that these observations are not the last word on the subject, however!

From what i read in the article, it is ranked in total number of handguns sold by that MAKER not necessarily the model pictured. So if my understanding is correct, the 1911 may still be the top selling handgun design if we put together all the various manufacturers numbers together. Practically every major manufacturer has a 1911 design now, notable exceptions being Glock, H&K, Walther. All IMHO ofcourse.

You could be close to the truth there Baldabe.
Of the top five manufacturers in the list, they all make 1911's. I know that Ruger can't keep them in stock.
S&W Sells 1911's
SIG offers 1911's in many different models. They wouldn't offer so many models if they weren't selling.
Taurus also offers several different 1911's.
As far as Kimber goes, that's about all they offer in habdguns. They do make the Solo which is a pocket 9mm but its not really that popular.

The other five in the top ten do not offer a 1911 though.

I thought that Remington also made a 1911.

Yes Remington makes a 1911.
Also Springfield Armory, Rock River Arms, Auto Ordnance, Browning, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, etc .

Here is a good thread that lists and show photos of some of the 1911's available out there:
http://1911addicts.com/threads/buyers-g ... dicts.511/

timmy wrote:I thought that Remington also made a 1911.

Hi timmy
i also got a pic of 1911 from dealer.He was saying its remigton rand in .45 caliber.seniors kindly lrt me know

If it is a genuine Remington-Rand, it would be a 1942-1945 handgun. Remington Rand made more 1911's than any other wartime manufacturers.
The skeletonized hammer and trigger are not original parts. The (early) Crimson Trace grips are also not original. It also looks like the rear sight is aftermarket.
The top grip screw looks like it has been replaced. It looks different from the bottom grip screw.

There are heavy "idiot marks" by the slide stop. So the gun was, most likely, repeatedly taken down and put together by someone who didn't really know what he was doing.
We have a gun that is from 66 to 69 years old. It has had parts replaced. Why? Was it shot out, neglected or abused?
Because of the parts replacement, it has no value to a collector. Could you get some better photos of the marking on the slide?

Will it be a good shooter? Maybe, but I would have to examine it very closely before I made a pronouncement.
Since someone has changed out the original parts, from my point of view the whole gun is suspect.
I might be totally wrong here but when a gun dealer in India shows me a gun that doesn't have it original parts AND has a huge "idiot mark"; alarm bells start ringing.