Indians For Guns

Hi guys....
Could you tell me that the .38 special revolver is prohibted or non prohibited in india.... And what about ammo is it easily available in india or more easily available in specific indian state. What is the price of .38 special revolver...
Thanks....

1. .38 Special more specifically referred as .38 Smith & Wesson Special is a NP bore cartridge

2. Ammo is not easily available. I have good reason to believe this scarcity has been artificially created by dealers to drive down the prices of revolvers in this cartridge.

3. It is now almost impossible to find firearms in this cartridge because I believe most have been converted to .357 magnum and sold to unsuspecting customers. I personally know of a Gent who was offered a Taurus revolver in .357 magnum and he verified the serial number with Taurus International Manufacturing Inc. and it turned out to be a .38 Special!!!

4. There have been reports of some members finding guns on offer for astonishingly low prices. Please refer to this thread. http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic ... 12&t=17767 So far I have seen only 2 genuine examples. One is discussed in the thread and the other was a Stainless Steel snubby available with a dealer in Delhi and his asking price was 10 lacs! Also some dealers in Punjab seem to have a higher probability of stocking this.

So it means any civilian can easily hold of .38 special revolver cause it is a non prohibited bore but only if u can find one cheapily and u purchSed it and the there is no ammo to feed to the revolver.
I personally like the .38 special cause it is more powerful than .32 and is NPB and which is good option for self defence but in india it just a dream....
Thanks bowman

So it means any civilian can easily hold of .38 special revolver cause it is a non prohibited bore

NPB yes, but easy to hold? Not so much. There are executive orders is some states issued by police departments that make possessing a revolver in this calibre somewhat difficult for civilians.

I agree with the rest.

BowMan wrote:1. .38 Special more specifically referred as .38 Smith & Wesson Special is a NP bore cartridge

2. Ammo is not easily available. I have good reason to believe this scarcity has been artificially created by dealers to drive down the prices of revolvers in this cartridge.

3. It is now almost impossible to find firearms in this cartridge because I believe most have been converted to .357 magnum and sold to unsuspecting customers. I personally know of a Gent who was offered a Taurus revolver in .357 magnum and he verified the serial number with Taurus International Manufacturing Inc. and it turned out to be a .38 Special!!!

4. There have been reports of some members finding guns on offer for astonishingly low prices. Please refer to this thread. http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic ... 12&t=17767 So far I have seen only 2 genuine examples. One is discussed in the thread and the other was a Stainless Steel snubby available with a dealer in Delhi and his asking price was 10 lacs! Also some dealers in Punjab seem to have a higher probability of stocking this.

Hi Bowman,

Why would dealers want to drive down the prices of .38 Special revolvers?

Regards.

To simply pick them off cheap. Remember a .357 Mag revolver is a much much more lucrative deal...

Bowman,

If they can "convert" a .38 Special into a .357 Magnum and sell it off as such, what stops them from "converting" PB revolvers into NPB ones and selling them off as such. If they can manipulate their records in the first case, why not in the second case? ? Given the huge price difference between PB and NPB handguns, this would be a very lucrative practice.

Regards.

miroflex wrote:Bowman,

If they can "convert" a .38 Special into a .357 Magnum and sell it off as such, what stops them from "converting" PB revolvers into NPB ones and selling them off as such. If they can manipulate their records in the first case, why not in the second case? ? Given the huge price difference between PB and NPB handguns, this would be a very lucrative practice.

Regards.

Miroflex my friend what makes you think this is not done ? Has anyone ever tried to find out what happened to hundreds of 38 cal Webley and Scott revolvers that civilians in India (and cops and men in armed forces) had owned for decades before and after Independence till the PB regulations and red tapes were introduced. A whole lot these, especially those registered on paper as "NPB revolver", the most common practice of the day, were "converted" to .32 cal and sold off. Just last week a gentleman (originally from a Northern state but based in Kolkata for a long time) came to a gun shop with a 6 inch barrel large frame Webley in .32 cal. He wanted to sell it. If you had one look you would know that it was originally made in .38 cal. It is not hard to imagine what an expert gunsmith can do with quality steel liners. The gentleman however had no clue and had paid the price for .32.

There was a time when civilians could even own these large frame Webleys in 455 cal. After the death of a famous industrialist (not mentioning name, time and place) people in the family found two of these, and four more in other calibers, inside a safe. They were all legally owned. There were hundreds, or may be thousands, of Webleys in 455 and 38 cal in circulation for years. While many of these are locked up in police malkhanas and gun shops (mostly under Section 21 of the AA) quite a few are out there disguised as 32s.
The Webleys were built like tanks and meant to serve their masters for hundreds of years. Seems they are doing a fine job.

Cheers
TC

Hi guys...
I want to know that .380acp is npb or pb in india.what about ammo is it easily available in india,if yes how much one cartrige would cost. Can a civilian easily get a hold of .380 acp on license.which different pistols are available in .380 acp,
And how much they cost....
What about walther ppk .380 acp how much it costs...
Really appreciate if members can fill me up with details of this topic...

Thanks.....

TC wrote:

miroflex wrote:Bowman,

If they can "convert" a .38 Special into a .357 Magnum and sell it off as such, what stops them from "converting" PB revolvers into NPB ones and selling them off as such. If they can manipulate their records in the first case, why not in the second case? ? Given the huge price difference between PB and NPB handguns, this would be a very lucrative practice.

Regards.

Miroflex my friend what makes you think this is not done ? Has anyone ever tried to find out what happened to hundreds of 38 cal Webley and Scott revolvers that civilians in India (and cops and men in armed forces) had owned for decades before and after Independence till the PB regulations and red tapes were introduced. A whole lot these, especially those registered on paper as "NPB revolver", the most common practice of the day, were "converted" to .32 cal and sold off. Just last week a gentleman (originally from a Northern state but based in Kolkata for a long time) came to a gun shop with a 6 inch barrel large frame Webley in .32 cal. He wanted to sell it. If you had one look you would know that it was originally made in .38 cal. It is not hard to imagine what an expert gunsmith can do with quality steel liners. The gentleman however had no clue and had paid the price for .32.

There was a time when civilians could even own these large frame Webleys in 455 cal. After the death of a famous industrialist (not mentioning name, time and place) people in the family found two of these, and four more in other calibers, inside a safe. They were all legally owned. There were hundreds, or may be thousands, of Webleys in 455 and 38 cal in circulation for years. While many of these are locked up in police malkhanas and gun shops (mostly under Section 21 of the AA) quite a few are out there disguised as 32s.
The Webleys were built like tanks and meant to serve their masters for hundreds of years. Seems they are doing a fine job.

Cheers
TC

Thank you very much for your highly interesting and informative post, TC. I was recently shown a large frame Webley from a batch that had, the dealer claimed, been erroneously imported in .38 calibre during pre Independence days and had been exported back to the UK for conversion to .32 calibre. They had been re-imported after conversion. The weapon was in pristine condition and was engraved with the name of the British firm that had carried out the conversion.

My point was that how is the paperwork managed when the change in calibre takes place in the dealer's records. Also why there are so many PB handguns floating around instead of having been converted to NPB? Any thoughts?

Regards.

Thank you very much for your highly interesting and informative post, TC. I was recently shown a large frame Webley from a batch that had, the dealer claimed, been erroneously imported in .38 calibre during pre Independence days and had been exported back to the UK for conversion to .32 calibre. They had been re-imported after conversion. The weapon was in pristine condition and was engraved with the name of the British firm that had carried out the conversion.

My point was that how is the paperwork managed when the change in calibre takes place in the dealer's records. Also why there are so many PB handguns floating around instead of having been converted to NPB? Any thoughts?

Regards.

Miroflex,
The example you mention is a highly unusual one and may have been a one of a kind case. I was referring to general conversions, sometimes done legally but in most cases, not. License for gun dealership and gun repairs are issued only by the home department of a state. There was a time when a repairer would easily get license for conversion alongside the license to repair. The argument was conversion could save weapons of obsolete bores if converted to ones available. People wishing to concert calibers used to officially apply and get approval from the license issuing authorities, usually the SP or DM. This is how the paperwork used to be done. But those days are gone. No state government issues new conversion license to repairers these days and nor do license issuing authorities allow conversions under normal circumstances. But there are still some repairers who have the clause "conversion" included in their license while, over the years, many found the clause deleted when their licenses were sent for renewal. This is the discretion of the state home department entirely.
Coming to your last question, Who would take the risk of officially converting the caliber of a weapon under these circumstances today ? And for those who don't want to get it done officially the paths were always open as long as the firearm was registered in the papers as one of 'NP bore' - something I mentioned in my earlier post.

Cheers
TC

TC wrote:

Thank you very much for your highly interesting and informative post, TC. I was recently shown a large frame Webley from a batch that had, the dealer claimed, been erroneously imported in .38 calibre during pre Independence days and had been exported back to the UK for conversion to .32 calibre. They had been re-imported after conversion. The weapon was in pristine condition and was engraved with the name of the British firm that had carried out the conversion.

My point was that how is the paperwork managed when the change in calibre takes place in the dealer's records. Also why there are so many PB handguns floating around instead of having been converted to NPB? Any thoughts?

Regards.

Miroflex,
The example you mention is a highly unusual one and may have been a one of a kind case. I was referring to general conversions, sometimes done legally but in most cases, not. License for gun dealership and gun repairs are issued only by the home department of a state. There was a time when a repairer would easily get license for conversion alongside the license to repair. The argument was conversion could save weapons of obsolete bores if converted to ones available. People wishing to concert calibers used to officially apply and get approval from the license issuing authorities, usually the SP or DM. This is how the paperwork used to be done. But those days are gone. No state government issues new conversion license to repairers these days and nor do license issuing authorities allow conversions under normal circumstances. But there are still some repairers who have the clause "conversion" included in their license while, over the years, many found the clause deleted when their licenses were sent for renewal. This is the discretion of the state home department entirely.
Coming to your last question, Who would take the risk of officially converting the caliber of a weapon under these circumstances today ? And for those who don't want to get it done officially the paths were always open as long as the firearm was registered in the papers as one of 'NP bore' - something I mentioned in my earlier post.

Cheers
TC

TC,

I agree with you that the conversion carried out on Webley and Scott revolvers in the UK after their export from India and subsequent re-import into India may have been the only case of its kind.

Thank you for elucidating the position regarding officially permitted conversion of calibres in India. I found it interesting and informative.

Regards.

Actually as I understand the situation, these gun conversions done by firms outside the country are now rendered impossible by the import ban. These were not so uncommon in the pre-ban days and Aladix conversions are amongst the more common ones. What we have now is an market that has been totally demented by absolutely no fresh supply for 30 years, and the demand keeps on steadily rising...

Let me also warn that these practices are not just limited to .38 Special/.357 Magnum revolvers (of which one dealer from UP confessed while in casual conversation). Please be very careful if you are offered rim fire revolvers with spare Magnum cylinders (I have personally examined specimens of this type. Has any one ever wondered why there are such a disproportionately high number of LR revolvers being offered with spare magnum cylinders in the country and none of them have factory paperwork to prove they were shipped with spare cylinders?). I have also heard reports of 30-06 rifles being offered at rates which sounded like music to the ears but turned out to be originally chambered in 30-30. Admitably of the rifles I am yet to personally examine such a firearm but this I believe is more because of recent I have not inquired much about the rifle markets.

Either you learn how to tell a lime from a lemon, something that comes with experience. Or else you can close your eyes and simply trust the paperwork...and talking about paperwork how would you react if you saw a .9mm luger pistol endorsed on a npb licence as .380 bore firearm...

manubrar67 wrote:Hi guys...
I want to know that .380acp is npb or pb in india.what about ammo is it easily available in india,if yes how much one cartrige would cost. Can a civilian easily get a hold of .380 acp on license.which different pistols are available in .380 acp,
And how much they cost....
What about walther ppk .380 acp how much it costs...
Really appreciate if members can fill me up with details of this topic...

Thanks.....

Manu please open a separate thread if your query is not previously answered and someone will be happy to answer. Kindly follow forum rules and do not mix two subjects in one thread.

Regards,

BowMan wrote:Actually as I understand the situation, these gun conversions done by firms outside the country are now rendered impossible by the import ban. These were not so uncommon in the pre-ban days and Aladix conversions are amongst the more common ones. What we have now is an market that has been totally demented by absolutely no fresh supply for 30 years, and the demand keeps on steadily rising...

Let me also warn that these practices are not just limited to .38 Special/.357 Magnum revolvers (of which one dealer from UP confessed while in casual conversation). Please be very careful if you are offered rim fire revolvers with spare Magnum cylinders (I have personally examined specimens of this type. Has any one ever wondered why there are such a disproportionately high number of LR revolvers being offered with spare magnum cylinders in the country and none of them have factory paperwork to prove they were shipped with spare cylinders?). I have also heard reports of 30-06 rifles being offered at rates which sounded like music to the ears but turned out to be originally chambered in 30-30. Admitably of the rifles I am yet to personally examine such a firearm but this I believe is more because of recent I have not inquired much about the rifle markets.

Either you learn how to tell a lime from a lemon, something that comes with experience. Or else you can close your eyes and simply trust the paperwork...and talking about paperwork how would you react if you saw a .9mm luger pistol endorsed on a npb licence as .380 bore firearm...

Bowman,

The point raised by you (in the coloured portion of your post) is not clear to me. Could you please explain in greater detail. Are you saying that .22 LR revolvers are unauthorisedly being equipped with .22 Winchester Rimfire Magnum (WRM) cylinders to boost sales? Are WRM cartridges easily available in India and are they popular enough with buyers of .22 LR revolvers to push up sales?

Regards.