Indians For Guns

Just stirring the pot for all you powder burners. Have at it lads!


In this modern age of the polymer frame
and the space age bottom-feeder,
With a well-made modern auto
you could trust'er if you need'er.

But should I end up in desperate straits
and need a problem-solver,
Well like the old song goes,
"That's when I reach for my revolver."

They've fallen out of favor
since the cops went to self-shuckers,
and oft my choice is met with laughs
by ign'int mother****ers.

"Why bother with that flintlock, dude,
it's way too slow to load,
with "only" those six rounds onboard,
you're toast out on that road!"

He talks of "being ready" when the nukes or zombies launch,
His shirt of camouflage still doesn't "camouflage" his paunch.

"What YOU need is the kind we've got,
this fancy automatic,
Revolvers just aren't "Tactical".
So usually goes the static.

"That all-steel monster weighs a ton
Next to these Glocks--pick any!
This one goes up to 18 rounds-
Takes out three times as many!"

Around this time the hotshot needs
Some putting in his place,
I struggle mightily to keep
the smirk from off my face.

"O Worthy Warrior", say I,
"For sure the title's fitting,
For any who can take out
18 men in just one sitting".

"But based on FBI stats
I've a sneaking premonition,
We'll be more quickly out of time
than out of ammunition."

"As far as higher round count goes,
as old school as it may be,
the saying's still the truth that
Six for Sure beats 18 maybe".

"For while 'tis true all guns, if left
uncared for, **** the bed,
That wheelgun never screws you
with a round that never fed."

"Oh, It can misfire, it can break
if you don't pay attention,
But fail-to-feeds or stovepipe jams
Doth hist'ry never mention."

"And you can leave it loaded
And you'll never have to sweat it,
Moonclips and loaders have no springs--
Just fill 'em and forget it".

"As far as quick reloading,
it's not such hard-gotten skill,
Moonclips outpace speedloaders,
and a backup's faster still".

"and speaking of that backup,
here's a bit of wisdom, tubby:
You want the world's best pocket gun?
Then don't you snub that snubby."

"For I'll concede the full size autos
have improved by much,
but their reliability
once shrunk down is nothing such".

"When in close-quarters contact,
contact shots are sheer madhattery
when you shove your auto 'gainst him
and the slide knocks out of battery".

"A snub won't have that problem
and is carried worry free,
It has no slide to get gummed up
by grit, lint, or debris".

"Now both types can be grabbed in such
a way as not to fire,
the snubby has a countermove
the auto still requires."

"And it can let all 5 shots go
from right in your coat pocket,
There ain't no faster draw than that
and ain't no Glock can rock it".

"You may see autos small enough
For pockets--there's a bunch,
they won't be this reliable,
nor pack near this much punch".

"For sure as I know anything
in all the stars and heavens,
six .380s just can't compete
with five .357s."

"And so you see, my friend, this wheelgun's
far from obsolete,
I might suggest you step back, think,
and train for what you'll meet."

Now it's still fine to say revolvers "just don't work" for thee,
But none that I have owned have EVER failed to work for me.
I don't mean to offend, and sorry if I've burst your bubbles,
but for all that men say "Obsolete"--they still dig holes with shovels.

--Andy Moynihan

Good find, Mack The Knife. Says it all. Should make for a lively discussion.

One word - VJha.

I offer this in response:

Caliber, actions, ammo capacity are for naught.
It doesn't matter what gun you brought,
'cause it's the only gun you got.
So when the battles going to to start,
The solution is to shoot them first,
and shoot them allot!
(anonymous Dept of Justice)

TwoRivers wrote:Should make for a lively discussion.

I was hoping to provoke just that.

XL_Target: Don't sit on the fence. Pick a side and have at it.

He talks of "being ready" when the nukes or zombies launch,
His shirt of camouflage still doesn't "camouflage" his paunch.

XL_Target: Don't sit on the fence. Pick a side and have at it.

I don't own any revolvers. The good ones are expensive. I would like a Dan Wesson set with interchangeable barrels but they are hard to find. It was one of the most accurate revolvers that I have ever fired. However they are heavy and not a good carry choice. The S&W scandiums in .357 Mag are lightweight and can be carried easily but Ouch! they hurt when fired.

Do I look at every handgun from a carry point of view? To a certain extent, yes. If I have a hangun, I want to use it. I can see owning a heavy caliber revolver for hunting (like 44 Mag or .454 Casull) but I'd rather carry a slung rifle or slug gun for hunting as the distances to the target are long. I can hit a target much easier with a rifle at longer ranges.

However, I do have some that are used just at the range like my .22 cal 1911. I guess I'm ambivalent about it. Most of my autos don't have external safeties and just have a point and click interface like revolvers. I side with autos for carry because of the increased mag capacity and ease of reloading (but a lot of the time I don't carry an extra mag). I also prefer the flat profile of an auto for carry but I wouldn't feel at a disadvantage with a good reliable revolver.

That's a sure shot for stirring pots Mack. Pistol vs Revolver debates have been raging on forums across the world and the fire seems unlikely to die down any soon.

This always seems to work down to individual preferences and tastes. Perhaps age also has something to do with this.

But for me I have always been a fan of Samuel Colt and his Jury of Six. There is something mystical and romantic about a revolver that is just not there in a pistol. The feel and sound of a perfectly timed action working on your finger turning that cylinder and chambering the next round to fire and the hammer rising to its greatest extent and then a BANG; all that happening such that your eye can see this musical interplay of components, it’s a visual and aural treat that is just not there in any other firearm.

It’ somewhat similar to a naked bike vs a fully flared one in this regard. Everyone knows that the Japs year after year churn out extremely well designed and efficient superbikes, but also largely sanitized of any individuality. Everyone also knows that a few years down the line current models are forgotten because upcoming model always manages to squeeze out a bit more power and handle those turns a bit sharper.

But do these bikes evoke the same emotional response that a Harley or a Triump does? To me these naked bikes where you can see that pulsating heart of engines and sound like orchestras on two wheels win hands down in terms of riding experience.

I remember reading an article about shooting incidents where the author who is a retired police officer and an authority on this subject quoting statistics to point out that vast majority of shootings are over within 5 shots both ways. Shall I say that most people carrying these Hi-Cap’s are somewhat over gunned and perhaps this is why they are banned in many places in the west.

However it’s not just pure romance about a revolver. There are some very inherent technical advantages of carrying one over a revolver.

A revolver is not very picky about what ammo you feed it; you have a .357 Mag but you can practice down range using cheaper and milder .38 special loads. A revolver in .327 Federal Magnum can safely chamber a .32 H&R Magnum round and also a .32 S&W Long round. This flexibility is just not there in a semi auto.

A revolver is also less finicky about ammo quality. A misfire in a revolver does not force you to out of business like it does when it happens in a semi auto.

The simpler design of a revolver frame and cylinder also allows for it to handle pressures far greater than a semi auto can even manage and that is why revolver cartridges triumph over semi autos in terms of stopping power. Not only does a revolver manage to digest much more pressure but can manage this with greater accuracy.

With so many of these available (I am not talking about Indian context here) in different barrel lengths (ever heard of an 8 inch barrel on a pistol) and chambering so many different rounds it is easy to find one that just perfectly fits your need be it is home defense or carry or some fun down range.

But that’s just me and my opinion really

Aloha,

When I shoot Bowling Pins, I use my S & W M-57 41 magnum, 5 pins = 5 rounds

Why do you say the Japanese bikes are sanitized? Have you heard of the NSR or the TZ series?

Good points by both sides so far but I want to see the pot boiling. Right now we have barely reached a simmer.

I can see owning a heavy caliber revolver for hunting (like 44 Mag or .454 Casull) but I'd rather carry a slung rifle or slug gun for hunting as the distances to the target are long. I can hit a target much easier with a rifle at longer ranges.

This has given me a subject for another topic that I am quite tempted to start in the hunting section. May get a bit too heated though as I have some very strongly held opinions on the subject.

Skyman: Don't take this thread off topic.

Perhaps I will be accused of straddling the fence, as well, but here are my views:

1. The argument that one only needs 5 or 6 rounds if one shoots straight does not wash with me, because that inserts the abilities of the shooter into the equation. There is no argument from me (or any reasonable person) that the first requirement is to be proficient at shooting, something which no weapon choice can overcome. This is true whether one is talking about self defense, hunting, or target shooting. My response to this argument is that a person who is a great shot with a 6 round revolver is better than a poor shot with a semiauto 15 round weapon, but the good shot with the 15 round weapon is best of all.

2. The argument that uses the analogy between Hondas and Harleys doesn't hold too much water for me, either. I like Harleys, and I have one. I have owned the same Harley since 1977 and it is almost as old as I am, so I am not one of these Johnny-come-latelies who is trying to recover my youth. My Harley IS from my youth. Yes, I am ten times mo of a man because it doesn't have electric start and it is very nostalgic and old school (some sarcasm intended here) but when it comes to doing a job, it ain't no Honda. A long ride will have one's limbs "singing" for an hour or so afterwards, and it just isn't as practical. If we are talking about aesthetics, the only rule is that what you like is best. But if we are talking about a tool to do a job, we need to be looking at objective, rather than subjective points.

3. Ok, so it is true: no .380 is equal to a .357. On the other hand, my .38 Special Colt Detective Special is much larger, bulkier, and more obvious when stuffed into my pants than my 1911 45 ACP, and in this comparison, the 1911 has one more round and a much more effective cartridge for self defense.

4. The issue of reliability is overstated in many cases. When it comes to reliability of a self defense handgun, I don't see any revolver holding any advantage over a 1911. Mind you, I won't say a 1911 is better than a good revolver, but I won't agree that it is in any way inferior, either. I think this comparison is a non-issue when comparing a good semiauto to a good revolver. Good 1911s do not have feeding problems. Mine will feed empties with no problem, all bullet types and shapes, and is not finicky to feed light or heavy reloads and never smokestacks. It just plain functions. If one has good Colt magazines with springs that are of a proper heat treat, the magazines can be left loaded for a very long time without the need to worry. Now, if one is talking about some other kind of semiauto, I have nothing to say, as I have not handled Glocks, Sigs, Kahrs, Rugers, or the rest very much, so I can't say much one way or another about them. But I will say that the coming of the 1911 over 100 years ago put the issue of the reliability of semiautos vs revolvers to bed. A particular implementation may have its own quirks; this is true for revolvers, as well.

5. Personally, the only gun I leave loaded constantly is my Detective Special. While this may seem contrary to the points I have made, it is what I do because it's what I'm comfortable with doing. I like revolvers and I like semiautos. I'm not going to start religious wars or a Spanish Inquisition on behalf of either design, as each has its strong points and weak points. How they balance or don't balance the trade offs inherent to each design moves froobjective to subjective territory very quickly in any disucussion. Different horses for different courses, and whatever each person chooses is what they have. If someone asks my advice (different from asking an opinion), then I'll state what I do and why, and what I thinks may work for an individual based on what I know about them and their needs, but I simply don't accept the existence of a "best" on this issue.

Some good points and some that can be knocked on their head. However, I don't have a dog in this fight. I am merely the official pot stirrer.

Now I am hoping someone gets up from the wrong side of the bed and has at it with a passion.

P.S.: Perhaps I should change my forum name to Windup Merchant.

P.P.S.: The sarcasm was noted but needs to be posted on that thread, if you want a reply.

Hey Windup Merchant, you musta forgotten to pay your gas bill this month because this pot doesn't seem to be boiling very hard.

Can you do this with a revolver?



actually you can but.... it has its disadvantages

Hey XL, BRK is taking all my gas money, so I was hoping you guys would bring your own gas.

I can see you were greatly influenced by Star Wars in your youth.