Tokarev TT33/34 and the Norinco Type 54

[LAWMSIAMA]

These weapons utilise the 7.62mm Tokarev rounds, are they illegal for civilian? Because I see a lot a civilians in the NE possesing it under lisesce, is it because of lack of knowledge about the calibre, bore and the ballistic of the ammo??
It is mostly know in the NE as the M70(no such pistols exist), as there is a label "M 70" stamped on the trigger guard as the trademark. These models found in the NE are mostly Chinese Norinco Models as they have a smaller grooves on the slide
The 7.62mm Tokarev, when compared to a 9mm Parabellum is like a 5.56 NATO vs 7.62 X 39mm Russian(AK-47).
7.62mm, have more muzzle velocity and therefore have a longer range and is more accurate compared to the 9mm, and the 9mm have more transfer of kinetic energy therefore have more stopping power..

Any Answer to my questions above ??

[goodboy_mentor]

Guns firing 7.62 mm Tokarev rounds are perfectly legal on NPB license. NPB/PB has nothing to do with ballistics of the cartridge. The basic premise behind NPB/PB is not ballistics but the gun's ability to fire central government's service ammunition. NPB/PB was created during Lord Curzon's time since British did not trust native soldiers or native people. It was done so that if there is a repeat of 1857, the ammunition supplied or looted from government armouries does not fire in civiliian firearms. Unfortunately this nonsense of PB has been made to continue even now in Category 1(c) of Schedule I of Arms Rules 1962.

[timmy]

Lawmsiama:

7.62mm, have more muzzle velocity and therefore have a longer range and is more accurate compared to the 9mm, and the 9mm have more transfer of kinetic energy therefore have more stopping power.

I wouldn't put things quite this way. The 7.62 x 25 Tokarev round has about the same muzzle energy as the 9mm Parabellum. The Tokarev round shoots a lighter bullet faster, and therefore has a flatter trajectory at short range. This means that it is easier to shoot over that short range, because the flight of the bullet does not deviate from the line of sight as much as the 9mm does. In other words, you don't have to "hold over" so much when aiming beyond, say, 25 or 50 meters with the Tokarev round.

Neither round is noted for being extremely accurate. I would not say that the 7.62 x 25 Tokarev is more or less accurate than the 9mm Parabellum.

As far as which round has more "stopping power," that, first of all, depends on what you mean by stopping power. I could accept one making the case of the 9mm being more effective in certain circumstances, but in others, the Tokarev might be superior. This sort of discussion could get into all sorts of angles, so I'll stop here for now.

Both rounds have their uses; neither one is "bad."

[TwoRivers]

Actually, the 85 gr. bullet of the Tokarev and the 115 gr, bullet of the 9mm Para have the same sectional density, i.e. weight per cross-sectional area. For caliber, the bullet weights are the same, with the 7.62 being about 200 fps faster.

[winnie_the_pooh]

7.62mm, have more muzzle velocity and therefore have a longer range and is more accurate compared to the 9mm, and the 9mm have more transfer of kinetic energy therefore have more stopping power..

First,you are shooting a handgun.Long range has no meaning as,but for very few,most can not shoot it accurately enough to take advantage of any theoretical long range accuracy.

Second,a small projectile zipping through a target is not going to have a lot of 'stopping power'.The .455 webley and the .45ACP are known 'man stoppers' ( as long as you shoot straight) and neither are known for high velocities.

I would take a heavy projectile of a larger calibre traveling at moderate speed any day over a reduced weight smaller calibre projectile driven at hyper velocities. Unless you wish to pierce armour.

That said,pistols in .30 tokarev are the most effective handguns that an average Indian can own and shoot.

[LAWMSIAMA]

Guns firing 7.62 mm Tokarev rounds are perfectly legal on NPB license. NPB/PB has nothing to do with ballistics of the cartridge. The basic premise behind NPB/PB is not ballistics but the gun's ability to fire central government's service ammunition. NPB/PB was created during Lord Curzon's time since British did not trust native soldiers or native people. It was done so that if there is a repeat of 1857, the ammunition supplied or looted from government armouries does not fire in civiliian firearms. Unfortunately this nonsense of PB has been made to continue even now in Category 1(c) of Schedule I of Arms Rules 1962.

So you mean that a TT33/34 or the Norinco Type 54 is legal according to the NPB ??

[Vikram]

So you mean that a TT33/34 or the Norinco Type 54 is legal according to the NPB ??

You seem to be a bit confused about the PB/NPB issue.Please read this

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2780

Best-
Vikram

[LAWMSIAMA]

So you mean that a TT33/34 or the Norinco Type 54 is legal according to the NPB ??

You seem to be a bit confused about the PB/NPB issue.Please read this

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2780

Best-
Vikram

Thanks

[goodboy_mentor]

So you mean that a TT33/34 or the Norinco Type 54 is legal according to the NPB ??

Of course yes it is NPB and perfectly legal on NPB license. I have already explained it that it has nothing to do with ballistics. All calibers other than those mentioned in Category 1(c) of Schedule I of Arms Rules 1962 are NPB. BTW use of the word "prohibited bore" is a great misnomer to mislead the people, it is not legally prohibited because you can get license for "prohibited bore" though it is difficult.

[ribaalber]

These weapons utilise the 7.62mm Tokarev rounds, are they illegal for civilian? Because I see a lot a civilians in the NE possesing it under lisesce, is it because of lack of knowledge about the calibre, bore and the ballistic of the ammo??
It is mostly know in the NE as the M70(no such pistols exist), as there is a label "M 70" stamped on the trigger guard as the trademark. These models found in the NE are mostly Chinese Norinco Models as they have a smaller grooves on the slide
The 7.62mm Tokarev, when compared to a 9mm Parabellum is like a 5.56 NATO vs 7.62 X 39mm Russian(AK-47).
7.62mm, have more muzzle velocity and therefore have a longer range and is more accurate compared to the 9mm, and the 9mm have more transfer of kinetic energy therefore have more stopping power..

Any Answer to my questions above ??

Are the 7.62 Tokarev rounds easily available "legally" in the NE?
Same for Norinco 54.. is it avaialble easily and "legally" there?
What is the Market price?