Indians For Guns

Hi,
What would be the most lethal combination of Pistol & Cartridges that a civilian can keep in India under licence ?
Pls. let us know the reasons for ur choice/s & also whether these are easily available in India.
U may give opinions about both low cost & high cost options.
Thanks.

hi,

well you can own the following

1) 357 mag revolver - but its is very expensive and ammo is hard to get

2) 44-40 revolver (not 44 mag) - very few guns available, ammo is cheap

3) 30 Mauser / 30 chinese - guns and ammo easily available



rajat

45 ACP Guys, Period
Anything bigger than 32 FMJ...nothing loaded with IOF ammo!
Best
Axx

Let me make the contrarian post here.

A handgun is as lethal as the user's ability is, especially in the Indian context where you may have to get a shot or two off to stop an attacker. A 22 lr pistol that you can shoot well would be much better than a 45 ACP that you find difficult to shoot, if not impossible, because of the recoil and because of how the old 1911s in India could pinch you when you shoot them. In the same light, a 22 would give you much more opportunity to shoot it regularly and practise shooting with, increasing your proficiency with it.

Pistols have been made for huge rounds - I saw a custom pistolsmith in Wisconsin at the NRA Convention who had revolvers made in 45-70 and the new defunct Century Arms made them in the even more monstrous 50-110 round. A German gunmaker offers revolvers in 600 Nitro Express too, and several American custom gunmakers have made single shots based on the Thomson Center Contender frame for monster rounds. Take it from me, few of these pistols have been shot much, if at all. There is a reason why great pistolsmiths like Lee Jurras who built the first Howdah Pistols after WW-2 designed their own wildcat rounds for them - there can be too much of a good thing, and excessive power in a handgun makes it uncontrollable for all practical purposes.

That said, there still are some old big bore revolvers available in India - some years ago the Shikar Armoury in Chennai had a huge 476 Webley Green revolver for sale and I am sure that some of the older Webleys in 577 are also around in India somewhere. You might have to import custom ammunition for them, but if the soft leadslug from one of these hits an attacker at 25 feet or less, the results would be a darn sight more spectacular than with the much more "powerful" (muzzle velocity wise) 357 Magnum or similar round. The recoil, too, would be much more manageable than a 357.

My friend Mark who has much more experience with handguns than I do has posted about the 44 Special, a fine round with less "power" than the 357 but better stopping ability - just remember this - big holes let in more air and let out more blood. Also, my childhood buddy and one of the world's top pistol shots, Linus Aruliah, carries a SIG Pro in 9mm Para as his personal carry gun. As a Glock challenge shooter, Linus shoots more rounds in a week than most of us would in a lifetime - and he knows what works and what doesn't. I'll try and get him to post here occasionally when he finds time from running his resort in Jamaica. It would be good to have an Indian - and one of the world's top pistol shooters - post here.

Cheers!

Mehul

Thanks for ur responses.
I did not know before coming to these forums that .357 & 45 ACP were NPB.Pls. correct me if I'm wrong.
I have a licence marked for NP Bore revolver/pistol,so I guess I'd have to keep my eyes open for handguns in these calibres.
Currently as my signature below says I'm carrying an IOF make 32 ACP which I find all right.I have seen Chinese 30 Cal pistols,probably chinese copies of Tokarev TT 30 at gunshops here.Ammunition (FMJ) is also available.
And from the specs it seems the gun packs a punch similar to a .357.
Mehul is right in saying the the effectiveness of the handgun lies with the shooter but all one has to do to get comfortable with one's weapon is to fire a couple of 100 shots deliberately aiming.I've done the same with my pistol.
I am not a crack shot or anything like that but I hit consistent groups close to Bullseye.I do not use a range but practice at my farm so I guess I can hit alteast the "center of mass" of the body.But when the panic button is pressed I can't say how I will do.
Thanks.

Kshatriya,

.357 mag is non prohibited at the moment. 45 ACP is a prohibited bore as Thomson sub-machine guns in .45 ACP are still being used by some police forces.

As far using a handgun in a life threatening situation goes,pray that you don't have to. By the time you get the pistol out from where ever you carry it ( most carry it tucked in their waist band beneath their shirt), racked the slide and got ready to fire,you would be dead (if the attacker has come with the intention of finishing you off).If you are unfortunate enough to have to visualize being in such a situation and carry a IOF .32 pistol and if you don't carry it with a cart in the chamber (if you do, its extremely dangerous as in some pistols the safety slips off) you can take off the safety and deactivate the grip safety (just tape), this would help you to get off a shot faster.This along with lots of practise.Considering the cost of ammo thats pretty expensive.100's of rounds of .32 ACP at Rs 32/- per pop, you are talking serious money.How many are you allowed to buy on your license in a year? I am allowed to buy ---(lets keep that a secret) per weapon in a year but have never bought or fired that many cartridges.Do change your ammo every 6 months.

Take care,
penpusher

Thanks for the info.
I carry it in "Cocked & Locked" position & have been carrying it thoughout my working day for a couple of years now.I have occasionaly had loosened magazine or disengaed saftey but these have been exceptions rather than a norm.So I guess it must be a problem with specific pieces & not all IOF pistols.
AFA the ammo is concerned ,only 25 per year is allowed as it is all over India.
Buit since a couple of close friends have pistols chambered in the same calibre I can manage numbers way beyond.Then there are other ways too.
But at Rs. 38/39,I'd still consider it cheap.
I do try to fire off old ammo & keep only the newer ammo in the pistol.
I try to practice as often as possible but since I do not frequent a range & practice at my farm,there are time when I do not fire for months at a stretch.
But I keep it a point to clean it once a week since carrying it daily exposes it to lot of natural elements.
My prime concern now is to increase the lethality of this piece & at the same time retaining/improving the consistency in groups that I manage.
I'd stick to factory made piece without tinkering with the safeties as I am satisfied with the enhanced sense of security they provide.
With so many dumb asses managing licences to weapons these days the only thing missing is "Frearm Handling" which is acquired over a period of familiarity with firearms.U have to see these chaps pointing their firearms in all directions when loading/unloading/display.
But I have had a reasonable experince because of a military background & love of firearms.This had saved my day a month back when I had fired a 32 Colt copy with a malfunctioning slide between my legs.
U can never be too sure...I guess.
Thanks.

Dear IFGian,
I want to know from where the NPB Bore starts as I have aa arms' licence for NPB Pistol/Revolver.

shalom


sumit

MajorSKUpreti ,

As far as hanguns go,the following bores are prohibited:-

1. .38 rimmed or .38-200(.38 S&W)
2. .455 rimmed
3. 9mm parabellum/9mm Luger
4. .45 rimless/.45 ACP

or any firearm that can fire these cartridges.Any other caliber is NPB.Also full auto pistols are prohibited.So you can buy a .44 mag or .500Mag revolver on your NPB license,if you can find one.

There is no mystery to this.Just get a copy of the Arms Act and Rules and go through it(bare Act should not cost more than Rs.100/-)

penpusher

hi penpusher
can u pls let us know where can v get a copy of arms act and rules.
is a soft copy available or any web link
thank u
ravi

Hi All,
I would agree whole heartedly with eljefe nothing below .45 acp loaded with cor-bon ammo!

Ravishankarbn

From any book shop that sells law books.Google for Indian Arms Act 1959.Abhijeet's web site also has a copy of it.

penpusher

What sort of 44-40 guns do people have?

We used to have a winchester rifle in that caliber when I was growing up and it was not that anemic of a cartridge for short range. In a handgun it would be a bit better than a 32 or 30.

Mark,

I have only seen 44-40 lever action rifles.All Winchesters.No revolver in this caliber.

penpusher

Actually yes, if one doesent mind a SA revolver, the 44/40, if not a PB, would be better.But the eternal bug bear-ammo availability.
I feel the most lethal handgun caliber is the ONE YOU'LL NEVER EVER HAVE TO USE IN A 'situation'...
Best
Axx