Indians army GLOCK rejects

[jonahpach]

Hello everybody..

Sometime ago sombody in the form mentioned the Indian Army rejecting Glock 9mm's and palming them off to the police and paramilitary forces. I would like to get more info regarding regarding this..

Reason being I loudmouthed this fact to some top dogs in the Mizoram Police and they are interested in getting them for the Mizoram Armed Police IF a) My facts were true and b) It were possible.

Hard Info and details regarding where to requisition the above such would be much appreciated. Since a contingent is already in delhi at this moment I need the info ASAP!

Jonah L Pachuau

[eljefe]

Jonah, I have handled and posted pics here of a Glock 17 -issued to Noida Police.I dont know about Indian Army REJECTS, but it looks like if you're the squeaky wheel, you'll get the oil...

[penpusher]

Jonahpach,

I don't know about the Indian army rejected Glocks,but the Glock's with the Punjab Police are new.Most,if not all,the firearms being bought by the state police forces are with the money being given by the Ministry of Home GOI,for the modernization of the police in the country.There is no desire or reason to buy rejected firearms.Why do you think the Mizoram police wants rejected second hand pistols.When the central govt. is giving money and there being no bar to import of firearms by the police force of a state,as long as it is approved by the Ministry of Home, why not import new ones.I think they(Glock 17) cost about 20,000/- new +/- a few thousand(don't have the exact figure).Just a few thousand more than the IOF made 9mm pistols.

Your query is puzzling to say the least.If the Mizoram police is so eager to arm it's officers with Army rejects,would it not be very easy for it to get this sort of information from the MOD???

penpusher

[HSharief]

Not to reflect badly on the Mizo govt but I think the reason they want to look into Army "rejects" is that maybe they're thinking they'll get a better deal than buying at retail/bulk etc...

More so, I think they're only looking into it or want to, is because Jonah "heard/read" somewhere that this happened.

[dev]

Jonah you really find the most juicy tid bits.
But I think the rumour is that it is the worn out army used pistols that are sold off to the police units.

Regards,

Dev

[jonahpach]

Squeaky or not the DGP and his contingent are in N.Delhi; If they get the Glocks you can be sure I'm amongst the first to try them out.

I just love this!

Jonah

[cottage cheese]

Squeaky or not the DGP and his contingent are in N.Delhi; If they get the Glocks you can be sure I'm amongst the first to try them out.

I just love this!

Jonah

Interesting.

I was wondering if the catastrophic failures were to do with a staple of handloaded 'hot'

ammo.

Here in India whoever the user, we'd be down to the rather insipid standard ball ammo.

Can the Glocks really be that bad? Perhaps I'm missing out on something. I mean its been

selling pretty good ever since it made its debut in the 80's.

The state police here(Meghalaya) bought a batch of Glock-17s sometime back. Direct

import. They are treated like golden scepters and being wasted on the top brass.

Generally I'd have preferred a batch of MP5s because Glocks dont really provide a vast

improvement over the existing 9mm pistols. Still the same cops... you know what I mean

Jonah.. what of the Skorpions in MAP service? Imports or hand-me-downs from MNF?

Never really pinned down the source.

I went through some seized Cz75s, Cz85s, their Chinese Clones and a lone Mauser

Model90. I like the Ambidextrous Cz85 the best, though DA Mauser would provide the

most gradual transition because of it's unmistakable GP35 parentage. Anyway all the Cz's

have been requisitioned into service and are being used by the Special Branch folks.

[jonahpach]

Hello cottagecheese,
No the MAP Scorpions are not handmedowns from the MNF., Rather issued to the 'special force' of the MAP now defunct. Have tried a few shots but they seem to be short of ammo. They are also in very poor condition.

Regarding the so-called rejection by the Armed Forces, I think it had more to do with army armourers who were put off by its modular design and its non-metallic frame (or so I heard)..

Jonah

[cottage cheese]

Cottage Chese,

One of my friends has a son in law and daughter who are handgun enthusiasts and they have several dozen different handguns. I always take time off to do some shooting with them when I visit Wisconsin and some time ago, I shot a Glock in 45 GAP over a long summer afternoon, shooting almost 200 rounds that day from it. I noticed that the metal on the slide at the barrel end tended to discolour after firing two or three magazines in succession. Obviously there was something about the tempering that was not right. After a while the slide would return to it's normal colour. We were shooting Wolf ammunition IIRC and there was no possibility of shooting overloads etc. Indeed, if you read the failure de.scriptions at the link that I posted, you would see that overloads etc were not a factor.

I have been hearing of Glock failures from Europe as well, from Scandinavia and from Central Europe. I do not think that Glocks are unsafe or anything of the sort per se. The possibility is that the company has either become too big and has little time for quality control or it has started cutting corners of late like one if it's competitors, Beretta. Neither of these factors contributes to selling more guns and I hope that Herr Gaston Glock realises that. I also hope that the chowderheads who decided to drop the CZ 75 in favour of the Glock are at least sufficiently internet enabled to check what is happening in the world on what they have handed our soldiers.

Thanks Mehul, thats quite an education from me. I assumed Glocks were really well made pieces. Well now it seems atleast the were at one point of time. Well just as with everything when it becomes bigtime...quality suffers. Same with software eh? Incidentally I've not yet fired the Glocks in state service, but I've fired a lot of first generation Glock17 and 19s belonging to the SPG. Really no doubt about quality on thise pieces. Also I must inform all that I'm a hopless shot.
A friend who was in the formative stages of the SPG says at technical level the had the scales tipped towards the H&K P7 and the SIG Sauer P228...eventually the decision to buy Glocks was more babu than sena.
What happened to the few lakh Cz75's we had ordered(Paid for?)

Jonah, Skorpions seem to be an odd choice eh? If they are in 7.65(32ACP) then ammo shouldnt be a problem... The only Skorpion I've used was one I came across in the local BSF depot- Mint Condition. The blokes there didn't have a clue as to its antecedents or status. MAP has always had access to off track weapons. I've seen ex-MNF SKS, Type56's, POF G3s, M16A1s, HK33s in use.

[technical]

@jonahpach ,are you in the armed forces/police/IAS?? how do you get such chances :O??

[technical]

hello
@jonahpach ,are you in the armed forces/police/IAS?? how do you get such chances :O??
@cottage cheese you too??
regards- technical

[PeterTheFish]

Cottage Chese,

One of my friends has a son in law and daughter who are handgun enthusiasts and they have several dozen different handguns. I always take time off to do some shooting with them when I visit Wisconsin and some time ago, I shot a Glock in 45 GAP over a long summer afternoon, shooting almost 200 rounds that day from it. I noticed that the metal on the slide at the barrel end tended to discolour after firing two or three magazines in succession. Obviously there was something about the tempering that was not right. After a while the slide would return to it's normal colour. We were shooting Wolf ammunition IIRC and there was no possibility of shooting overloads etc. Indeed, if you read the failure de.scriptions at the link that I posted, you would see that overloads etc were not a factor.

I have been hearing of Glock failures from Europe as well, from Scandinavia and from Central Europe. I do not think that Glocks are unsafe or anything of the sort per se. The possibility is that the company has either become too big and has little time for quality control or it has started cutting corners of late like one if it's competitors, Beretta. Neither of these factors contributes to selling more guns and I hope that Herr Gaston Glock realises that. I also hope that the chowderheads who decided to drop the CZ 75 in favour of the Glock are at least sufficiently internet enabled to check what is happening in the world on what they have handed our soldiers.

I am glad to see rumor mongering on the poor quality of Glocks is not confined to the US!

The linked post of the kaBoom purporting to show the poor quality of Glocks is clearly due to an overcharged round made by a known questionable manufacturer. The kaBoom linked in the bottom of that post involves the same ammo fired in a Glock AFTER 100 rounds of cast lead loads had been shot in it - a Major no no.

The end of a glock slide (or any handgun slide) gets discolored from powder residue while firing - this is especially noticeable with dirty low quality ammo like Wolf. As a handgun is handled for reloading it comes off. You would struggle to shoot fast enough to get the slide of a glock over 200 degrees (Farenheit!) I assure you it was not overheating due to an issue with heat treating.

You hear about a lot of glock failure for a few reasons. First, there are a lot of Glocks. Same reason you will hear of more issues with Maruti 800 than Ferrari. Second is related to the first. People who shoot a lot and get into reloading without properly understanding the science behind it tend to blow up their guns. And they're more likely to own a Glock the first time they don't check their brass for wear or decide to hotdog a .40 S&W. Again more Marutis than Ferraris.

I read on numerous message boards I'm on about kabooms that "are the guns fault". The shooter swears they were shooting factory ammo. On closer review, the shooter will insist it was the last round of the box. And they threw the box away. And have no other casings they fired that day. Inevitably, if the poster sticks around long enough, we find its a 20 year old box of ammo they bought at a gunshow from a questionable seller. Or one of their reloads magically hopped in the box of the factory ammo they were shooting.

Glocks are ugly. They're amongst the least ergonomic guns on the market today. Their triggers are inconsistent, gritty, and just plain suck. And they poorly account for the human factor involved in negligent discharges. Those are fair criticisms of Glock.

They are also unfailingly reliable, durable, and safe - even if neglected. Probably a perfect arm for most military and police users.

They will not stand up to a double charge. Neither will a CZ, or a 1911. Note the slide and barrel on the kaboomed Glocks are toast. They are no weaker than those on a CZ. Don't shoot lead, follow the rules of reloading, and they do exactly what they are designed to do.

/Rant off

[farook]

Glocks are ugly. They're amongst the least ergonomic guns on the market today. Their triggers are inconsistent, gritty, and just plain suck. And they poorly account for the human factor involved in negligent discharges. Those are fair criticisms of Glock.

Yes ugly in the sense they look boxy, dont like their grip angle either. The perfect blend between the two, most reliably engineered pistol and the most hansom pistol is a Walter PPQ M2, While its trigger and sticker fire mechanism is from Glock its exterior design is inspired from a Hk P30. Can't go wrong with this one...

[PeterTheFish]

The PPQ trigger may externally resemble that of a Glock but that is where the similarity ends... And the sights supplied on the PPQ may even be worse than the glock!

[farook]

The PPQ trigger may externally resemble that of a Glock but that is where the similarity ends... And the sights supplied on the PPQ may even be worse than the glock!

The trigger I believe is the best with the exception of custom 1911s. The sights can be changed. Have we shot the pistol. Any reviews on it...