Indians For Guns

Foreign Origen Weapons Sold to Customs Officers & MPs
Sir,
We filed a RTI in the office of the Commissioner of Customs Delhi,
We are getting a list of all the foreign made confiscated smuggled weapons at throwaway prices in violation of the laid down policy.
These costly weapons of different foreign made, including some “prohibited bore” rifles have been sold to the MPs & Customs Officials since 1986, for prices ranging between Rs. 3200/- to Rs. 300000/-.
At the current market rate, the total value of the 653 weapons sold to MPs could be more than Rs 16 crore, while the government has got only a little over Rs 1 crore from the sale, as per the list, they are giving to me, as I have inspected the 37 register out of that I will get the certified photo copy of the 13 register shortly, while inspection the same I find lots of details where the customs have given the foreign made weapons to their officials on lease basis and simultaneously the foreign made cartages were sold to their officials on one rupee to five rupee per cartages.
As per the Centre’s own policy, the first preference in the allotment of the seized weapons should be given to Custom and Central Excise Department officials and then to other government officials, who face a threat perception in the course of discharging their duties.
Complete data about the allotment and sale of 961 smuggled weapons, seized since 1986, stating that the arms could be sold to the MPs only if those were spare after being given to the officials.
Prominent among the beneficiaries are Union Ministers Syed Shahnawaz Hussain, Vinod Khanna and Vijay Goel, former Union Ministers R. L. Bhatia, Margaret Alva, Arun Nehru and Balwant Singh Ramoowalia, former Haryana Chief Minister Bansi Lal, Chhattisgarh Chief Minister Ajit Jogi and UP Chief Minister Mayawati.
The list also includes the names of BJP leaders Vijay Kumar Malhotra, Vinay Katyar, S. S. Ahluwalia, Prem Kumar Dhumal, Uma Bharti, Vasundhra Raje Scindia, Chetan Chauhan and Maheshwar Singh, Akali leader Sukhbir Singh Badal, Congressmen Suresh Kalmadi and Jagdish Tytler, INLD’s Ajay Singh Chautala, Margreat Alwa, and scores of other former and present MPs, Some Governor and one Yoga Nand Shastri MLA of Delhi.
As I will get the entire list with the weapon number sold to the above named VVIP’s and Customs Officials soon which I will post in the next post of mine.
I will post the text of the circular of Dt 15-July 2002 where the Ministry of Finance department of Revenue laid down a policy regarding disposal of confiscated fire arms.
We will appreciate if you will put your further quarry and as well as some suggestion on the above.
Regards
HDN

now, thats what hitting a bulls eye is!.. good one HDN,

lets hope the RTI is not replied in Babu-speak..

Thomas

Bravo hdn !

I dislike Suresh Kalmadi even more now !!

Eagerly waiting for your next post.

best,
Rp.

Dear Thomas,
As 1st they have-not reply then i filled the appeal and after the appeal they show me the register otherwise they are just passing the days, as i involved the Commissioner Customs New Delhi in the entire episode and then they have no chicer other than to entertain me with my full satisfactions and also provide me the copy of over a thousand documents without any charges.(Free of Charge).
HDN

nice, it is so good to hear. and i am sure that the news channels would love to bite into this story. I think you should develope a complete report on this and contact media.

This will bring out the story of the arms loving politician who stocks the best for himself, and that too free (i am filled with rage when i say this "******* free!!!") and deprives the tax payer of a decent self defence tool.
Not to forget none of these guys have any issues with IOF made lemons too!!!

Regards
Thomas

Very good, our armed forces are provided Indian Ordnance Factory made guns, why they themselves want "foreign" made guns? Why can't they be happy with Indian made guns from Indian Ordnance Factories? It is a very big question mark ?

As per the Centre’s own policy, the first preference in the allotment of the seized weapons should be given to Custom and Central Excise Department officials and then to other government officials, who face a threat perception in the course of discharging their duties.

This policy of "threat" or "no threat" is illegal and unconstitutional as well, it is a matter of the right of our people. It has been explained at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 85#p117785 and at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 53#p118753

Great work hdn!

However I feel that this is just the tip of the iceberg. You need to work a lot more on this and prepare a report on it get and get it aired. The news should be something like: unjustified sale of these weapons + loss of revenue + why these people prefer these guns over the IOF + if the auctions were publicized or not and how + no access to guns to license owners and difficulties faced in obtaining a gun license.

if the auctions were publicized or not and how + no access to guns to license owners and difficulties faced in obtaining a gun license.

Auctions should be publicized giving sufficient time, so that each and every citizen gets the opportunity to apply for participating in auctions and auctions should not be done until every applicant has received arms license, so that everybody can successfully participate in auctions. It is a matter of natural justice and fundamental rights guaranteed under Constitution.

Amazing work! Keep it up and expose these people. Become a citizen journalist and broadcast this on national TV!

goodboy_mentor wrote:

if the auctions were publicized or not and how + no access to guns to license owners and difficulties faced in obtaining a gun license.

Auctions should be publicized giving sufficient time, so that each and every citizen gets the opportunity to apply for participating in auctions

Exactly! This is the point.

The RTI application has brought out very interesting facts indeed. It would be appreciated if the date and number of the CIC decision can be quoted so that we can see the detailed information from the Internet itself. The assertion made above have two aspects. One a selected few people have been able to procure the arms, as that is as per the present policy of the Government. Whether this policy of the Government is correct or incorrect is debatable. The second aspect relates to the so called huge revenue loss to the Government. On this point I beg to differ. At present, the import and sale of firearms to the general public is banned in India. Therefore, there cannot be any MRP in respect of any foreign made fire arms. The price on which trading in second hand fire arms (mostly 30 – 40 years old) takes place cannot be accepted as the market price of such weapons. There are people who consider it below their dignity to go in for IOF made weapons and are ready to pay fantastic price for old imported weapons. However , this cannot be construed to be the real price of the weapon in the Indian market. Since general import is banned, there is in fact no real market price of these weapons as far as India is concerned.
In such a situation, we should compare the price that has been paid by the recipients of these weapons with the actual price of the weapons in the international market and then only should talk of huge loss of revenue to the Government.
Lastly, I would like to add that bullets from both the IOF .32 weapons available to the general public are quite effective in action. Those who are in immediate need of a weapon should go in for the revolver and need not wait for the pistol, as its waiting period is too long. Secondly, in the immediate future there is not much possibility of increase in production of the pistols. The only limitation is that one cannot impress others with a IOF weapon but can surely protect himself and his property quite safely.

As per the Centre’s own policy, the first preference in the allotment of the seized weapons should be given to Custom and Central Excise Department officials and then to other government officials, who face a threat perception in the course of discharging their duties.

"Threat perception" being a fashionable word in babu circles of late (most use the words without being able to define it)... on wonders what kind or how much of a "threat perception" the white-brigade-storm-troopers face?

well done HDN. let us all join hands to fight this injustice

hdn wrote:Dear Thomas,
As 1st they have-not reply then i filled the appeal and after the appeal they show me the register otherwise they are just passing the days, as i involved the Commissioner Customs New Delhi in the entire episode and then they have no chicer other than to entertain me with my full satisfactions and also provide me the copy of over a thousand documents without any charges.(Free of Charge).
HDN

HDN, can you tell us if the appeal you have mentioned here was the First appeal to the First appellate authority or the Second one to the CIC. How long did it take you to get the reply from the date you filed the application with the PIO? Thanks.

Whether this policy of the Government is correct or incorrect is debatable.

I beg to differ that it is something debatable due to the following:

Can a government have a policy that is against the fundamental rights of citizens? Example: Can a government have a policy that food grains will not be supplied to the poor because they are a burden on the nation? No it cannot done because it will be against the right to life under Article 21. Similarly government cannot have a policy that is against other fundamental rights of people. Arms Act 1959 has been specifically created to regulate(not curb or prohibit) the fundamental right of RKBA. Arms Act is equally enjoyable by all citizens, whether MPs, IAS, IPS or whatever. MPs or anybody cannot say that we want to bypass Arms Act by hiding under the cover of policy. Due process of law(arms act) has to be followed when a specific law has been enacted by parliament to regulate arms. Arms seized by customs are a public property and need to be publicly auctioned to arms dealers and the license holders. MPs etc. etc. can purchase the arms from them just like all citizens because arms act is applicable to all citizens.

The second aspect relates to the so called huge revenue loss to the Government.

I believe it is a huge revenue loss to government because the arms seized by customs being public property were not publicly auctioned to arms dealers and license holders. Due to the prevailing extortionate market prices of foreign firearms in country, the arms dealers and license holders would have been happy to pay the price much higher than prevailing international market price of similar firearms. Hence it is a clear revenue loss to government which was enacted by hiding under the cover of "policy".