Indians For Guns

I am working on an article for an American gun magazine about .380 service revovlers and am attempting to locate information on the Ruger Service Six and Speed Six revolvers, in .380 R (a.k.a. .38 S&W; .380 Mk. 2) that were sold to the Indian government in the 1980s. In particular I would like to know if they were issued to the army or police units and are they still in service? I would also be interested in knowing what other revolvers are still in service with the Indian army or police.

Many thanks.

HI,yes you are right they were issued to the police units mainly the traffic branch initially but now thet have shifted to the glock 9mm and mostly have phased out the Rugers . Also the main stay was Hi Power Belgium 9mm pistols which are still being used .

Krag,

The Rugers are still in use with the police.In fact I fired one of these recently.Considering the calibre the recoil is very mild.I do not think that they were ever issued to the Army.I do believe that they were ordered by the Ministry of Home Affairs for issuing to the police.Army would be covered by the Ministry of Defence.The cloak of secrecy that shrouds even insignificant matters means that it would be difficult to find out who all were given these revolvers.But I have only ever seen these with the police

They are supplemented by Indian made copies of the 9mm Browning Hi power.Some of the Webley's in .38 are still in service.The .455 Webley's have by and large been phased out though they may still continue in some states.Glock 17's have slowly started making an appearance.I have also seen S&W revolvers in .38 Spl (5 shot with a shrouded hammer.Have no idea about the model).These are off course sidearms of police officers.

Re the Army the general issue is the copy of the Hi-Power.There are also Beretta 92's and the Brigadier version of it in 9mm though their number is limited.The special forces and the Paramilitary Forces make their own purchases.

I hope this helps.

Besides the police,certain other departments like the Customs,and The Assam Rifles are issued with these weapons.If i not wrong
the Ruger weapons are marked "TITAN TIGER",with a 4"barrel.Besides the Ruger,the Colt "COBRA" Llama "MARTIAL"model,also in .380/200 chambering are also plentiful.I have shot both these weapons a lot,recoil is really light.The S&W revolver mentioned by winnie could be the S&W "CHIEF"S Special in .38Spl(5 shot cylinder stainless steel),I have fired such weapons belonging to The Customs,but .38Spl ammo isn't available We used .380/200 in them.
Regards,
Rohan

vrohan59 wrote:Ruger weapons are marked "TITAN TIGER",

Nothing like that on the revolvers that I have seen and they were all made as part of one order from what I understand

vrohan59 wrote:the Colt "COBRA" Llama "MARTIAL"model,also in .380/200 chambering are also plentiful

I do not know where you have seen a colt cobra in .38 S&W.I have never seen or heard of the revolvers that you describe.I have only seen and shot Enfield,Webley,Colt (not the Cobra)and Ruger revolvers in .38 S&W.

vrohan59 wrote:could be the S&W "CHIEF"S Special in .38Spl(5 shot cylinder stainless steel),I have fired such weapons belonging to The Customs,but .38Spl ammo isn't available We used .380/200 in them.

Blued and not stainless steel..38 Spl. Federal Hydrashok's is what the police has so that bit about there being no ammunition is also incorrect..38S&W in a .38 Spl.?Highly unlikely.You can google(again) to find out why.

@winnie
I fired weapons belonging to the Customs,not to the police(with the police I've fired on different ocassions,not the one stated),and we have fired .38 S&W ammo in them,chamber dimensions didn't differ.no problems were experienced in extraction.I have fired Enfield,Webley revolvers too.By the way the above mentioned weapons were ordered by the Finance Ministry and not the MHA(P.C was in charge then of Finance).If you get a chance read the manuals which came with these weapons,it is clearly stated you can fire 38S&W in .38Spl cylinders(we read them before loading them with 38S&W).And by the way the ones I've fired were stainless steel(S&W Chief's spl)
Rohan.
And by the way I didn't GOOGLE it,what I'm saying is from personal experience.As they say the internet is a haven for whack jobs and "paper back know it alls"

Sometimes it can be your friend too

The .38 S&W is a revolver cartridge developed by Smith & Wesson in 1877. Though similar in name, it is not interchangeable with the later .38 Smith and Wesson Special due to a different case shape and slightly larger bullet diameter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_S&W

.38S&W

Specifications
Bullet diameter .361 in (9.2 mm)
Neck diameter .3855 in (9.79 mm)
Base diameter .3865 in (9.82 mm)
Rim diameter .440 in (11.2 mm)
Rim thickness .055 in (1.4 mm)
Case length .775 in (19.7 mm)
Overall length 1.240 in (31.5 mm)

.38 Special

Bullet diameter .357 in (9.1 mm)
Neck diameter .379 in (9.6 mm)
Base diameter .379 in (9.6 mm)
Rim diameter .44 in (11 mm)
Rim thickness .058 in (1.5 mm)
Case length 1.155 in (29.3 mm)
Overall length 1.55 in (39 mm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Special

vrohan59 wrote:If you get a chance read the manuals which came with these weapons,it is clearly stated you can fire 38S&W in .38Spl cylinders

Never seen a police firearm accompanied by a manual.Coming from a liability obsessed atmosphere,why would the company suggest that?

Thanks to all for the information. I have been told that Ruger's Indian order included Security Six revolvers with 4" barrels and Speed Six revovlers with 2.75". Can anyone confirm this?

Also, I did not know that High Power pistols were made in India. Can anyone tell me where they are manufactured?

Many thanks.

-- Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:18 am --

Does anyone have any photos of Indian soldiers/police armed with .380 revolver (of any make)? They would make a great addition to my article. They can be posted here or e-mailed to me?

winnie_the_pooh wrote: Never seen a police firearm accompanied by a manual.Coming from a liability obsessed atmosphere,why would the company suggest that?

That question is better put to the manufactures....maybe they are more responsible than you think The Customs weapons came with instruction manuals,guess PC is more "human"than I think Any ways thanks for the info,really appreciate it.
Regards,
Rohan

Krag wrote:I have been told that Ruger's Indian order included Security Six revolvers with 4" barrels and Speed Six revovlers with 2.75". Can anyone confirm this

I have only seen the longer barreled version of it .This is not to say that there were no shorter barreled ones,just that if they were there,the number must have been pretty limited.

If you can PM me you e-mail id, I will be going to the range this coming week and can send you photos of one of the Rugers and anything else that you may require.

[email protected]

Many thanks!

Winnie: PM sent

Also, I did not know that High Power pistols were made in India. Can anyone tell me where they are manufactured?

Here is the link http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/7.htm

Krag wrote:Winnie: PM sent

Never got any.

I'm American. I own an Enfield .380/200 revolver and have owned .38 Special revolvers in the past. I can state undoubtedly from personal experience that .380/200(.38 S&W) ammunition cannot be chambered and/or fired in a .38 Special chamber. The head diameter is the critical dimension here. If you look at the two cartridges side by side, you will see that the S&W case is noticeably larger at that point. If you could fit a .38 S&W into a Special chamber, that chamber would be dangerously oversize and unsafe to shoot. Owing to the high levels of fit and finish and overall quality on Smith & Wesson firearms, I daresay that such a defective revolver would not leave the Smith & Wesson factory.