Help required in buying .30 mauser broomstick pistol

[ajaywig123]

if u need any more info plz feel free to call me

[Vineet]

Cartridges for the .30 Mauser may not be available with the shop next door but are stocked by many dealers. The .32 ACP while easier to obtain is a much less powerful cartridge than the .30 Mauser. The purchaser need not necessarily be involved in close range combat situations and may find it necessary to defend himself at longer ranges where the Mauser would be in its element.

True but is there any guarantee that all those .30 ammo that you say "many dealer" stock will fire when the gun owner life is at stake ? I have seen dealers you are referring to polishing twenty year old ammo with fine sandpaper and then rubbing the cartidges with chalk dust and people buying them as "just imported" ones.

I have also seen many dealers you are referring to reloading old brass with powder, primer and bullets of questionable quality.

TC

My brother owns a .30 pistol and father a Mauser c 96. We regularly buy ammo to feed them and I am yet to encounter a batch of ammo that won't fire. Couple of misfires in hundred rounds is a different story.

With experienced eyes one can easily differentiate between original ammo and the 'polished' ones.

You yourself depend on imported ammo (.22 hollow point) for self defence and you are telling others not to do so....

[hamiclar01]

if u need any more info plz feel free to call me

I'm sorry, you are.....?

[nagarifle]

even if the metal of remi 100 years ago was better then the local stuff, let me ask you one question would Remington or others give a sure guarantee with out having the metal tested that it is as good as 100 years ago. nay my friend they will not and neither should we.

As pointed out the bromhandle is much desired weapon, however in today's situations one does not see any one carrying it under their armpit.

As for the cal. yes, it is a powerful one, yes. its hard to get.

as for self defense, yes, if i was keeping under the bed and no where else and not firing more then 2 shots per year.

no if i wanted to be portable in today's world, least we forget we are not living 100 years ago when everyone was armed in some fashion or the other. please wake up to the realities of todays world.

.32 for self defense, yes if the firearm, would not explode in my face, just point it at the face of the one
who is attacking you , from 5=10 M and pull the trigger, it scars me s""t.

all said and done, i would not recommended the bromhandle pistol for self defense to anyone, having used many different arms having spent over 5 lac of ammo, i value my life more then to put my faith in the broomhandle which has not been tested for integrity by today metal experts.

[miroflex]

Winston Churchill successfully defended himself in the Battle of Omdurman ("The River War") and the Boer War with a Mauser. He certainly lived to tell the tale. QED.

QED????
But did he fire it? His survival may have to do with poor enemy marksmanship (the wikipedia entry you reference writes the mahdis had older weapons) and many other unaccounted and unrecorded factors

Quod erat demonstrandum= which was to be proved.

The sequence of events is narrated in his books "My Early Life" and "The River War". Their opponents certainly did not regard the Boers as poor marksmen.

Given the paucity of ammo, how many Indians would be able to practise and shoot accurately at 100m using a short barrel with open sights?

Paucity of ammunition is equally applicable to all calibres and has more to do with the limits imposed on licence holders rather than the availability of ammunition.

Also, may I hearken the sentimental members' attention to the title and nature of the thread. We are not here to wax eloquent on the pistol in question, which has its own merits, very true.

We are here to help the OP make a sensible decision on an ancient firearm being offered at a premium price, in the shadow of our gun laws

[/quote]

You do not seem to have read my post fully. I had pointed out that the Mauser was difficult to carry in a concealed manner. It was awkward and clumsy in use due to its size and shape. It had been overtaken by more modern designs which were more compact and easier to carry in a concealed manner and were also easier to bring into use. Cartridges for some of these were easier to obtain than those for the Mauser.

There is no doubt that modern weapons are a more practical proposition than the old "broom handle" Mauser.

Regards.

[hamiclar01]

Quod erat demonstrandum= which was to be proved.

It might surprise you to learn that you are not the only one with a working knowledge of Latin. My query was related to your free use of a term generally reserved for veracity. I question your comprehension of the expression in sticking this label, on historical first and third person narratives of doubtful integrity. All autobiographies are to be taken with a pinch of salt, the war ones being particularly notorious. I might break your heart to know that in academia, they would not qualify as incontrovertible proof.

The battle of Omduran was not part of the Boer wars. It is what you allude to in your post. While I do not doubt the merits of the Mauser,by your argument, any arm a soldier carries in a war he survives can be said to have saved his life

[rishiraj]

[b]Help required in buying .22 bore rifle[/b]
Dear ,
After long time ,I got his license for buying 0.22 bore rifle. I interested in buying a 0.22 bore rifle of Indian or foreign make rifle .pls. suggested rifle,price and dealer.

[nagarifle]

[b]Help required in buying .22 bore rifle[/b]
Dear ,
After long time ,I got his license for buying 0.22 bore rifle. I interested in buying a 0.22 bore rifle of Indian or foreign make rifle .pls. suggested rifle,price and dealer.

stay of this thread or you will get eaten up. find the other thread to ask your question as thread hi jacking is not done thing.

[BowMan]

There are some personal remarks by members which are really off topic and have little substance. Let me not get into these and stick to the point.

Now coming back to guns there are 2 principal ways in which age and repeated use affects a firearm.

1) When a gun is fired the pressure inside the chamber can rise to 60,000psi. This puts mechanical load on the surfaces/structures containing this pressure. Primarily we are talking about the chamber, barrel and action/frame
2) When a bullet is fired hot gases are ejected at a temperature of about 3000 K and this raises the temperature of the chamber/barrel surface to about 1100 C and this rapidly declines to around 500 C by the time the bullet exits the barrel. Additionally there is friction from the bullet that is accelerating and spinning at approx 9000 rmp

Coming back to the concerns raised by members about metallurgy of old guns. Scientifically what we are talking about is called metal fatigue. Surprising as it is but yes metal can be fatigued and this can be seen if one repeatedly bends a wire and brings it back to its original position. Even in the most malleable metal there will be a stage when the wire will break.

In a gun this metal fatigue can be set in only if the gun has been subjected to repeated and prolonged firing of hot loads, which are loads which have been deliberately charged to generate pressures which are higher than the bearing capacity of the gun. In the Indian context where reloading/hand loading is almost unheard of, there is little reason to suspect that this pistol has been subject to hot loads over a prolonged period or to have faced any such abuse. This is just like the wire in above example. A wire which is not deformed out of its natural shape can not be subjected to metal fatigue.

In revolvers this can be checked by looking at the cylinder and frame for almost microscopic cracks at the edges. Also the forcing cone is subject to wear and cracks. If this is observed than the weapon is definitely unworthy. In a semi auto hand gun please inspect the front of the slide and ejection port for excessive wear, hairline cracks or pitting. Similarly check for excessive corrosion of the barrel/rifling. If this is observed than same goes for the pistol.

Also check if the controls work smoothly but with reasonable pressure/feedback. Try to cycle some rounds to verify it cycles without any issue. The slide should move smoothly but it should not be too loose or sloppy. Examine any screws to see if there are marks suggesting that the gun has been opened. Also marks on the screw heads suggest that it has been opened by someone who does not really know his job and has damaged the screw in the process. If possible field strip the gun and carefully examine all parts and surfaces. If a part has been re manufactured than often this can be ascertained by carefully observing the tooling marks, usually they will be more pronounced or will have a different pattern about them.

If these checks are carefully carried out that there is no reason why a 100 year old firearm cannot be used with safety. If still in doubt then get the gun consulted by an expert.

The fact if that there has been very little change in the basic metallurgy of firearms over the past century. The only notable exception to this is use of polymer frames and disuse of Damascus steel. Innovations such as Chrome – Molly or Molybdenum steel and BS classification of steel have been in place for well over a century now. Smokeless powder was invented in 1884 which generated almost thrice the pressure of similar amount of black powder. Neither is there anything particularly advanced about the EN 17 or EN 24 grade steel used by IOF.

It is well known that the golden era of firearm manufacture is well past with most ‘pre war’ weapons commanding a premium. This is primarily because earlier weapons were carefully put together by very skilled craftsmen one piece at a time and now this process has been replaced by automation. While this makes for a more cost effective and faster production process it necessarily sacrifices on quality. Pick up a pre war colt and feel it’s smooth and polished action and perfect timework and then compare it with a gun produced by an automated assembly line and you can tell the difference.

There are many iterations of this pistol and if you want to know more about the one you have seen then please refer to these links.

http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/id.htm
http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/index.html

I hope this information helps you sonuvecv.

BowMan

[BowMan]

As a vintage car lover said:

One man's meat is another man's poison,
My favourite car is an Avions Voisin.

Regards to all.

"Avions Voisin" sighhhhhhhh!!!

You have put it very well mate. I guess I am a bit of a vintage lover myself and it sounds very jarring to me when someone suggests a Tata Nano to a gent looking for a Avonis.

[BowMan]

My brother owns a .30 pistol and father a Mauser c 96.

Perhaps Vineet you have a good experience of this pistol. Can you point out or list some of the things that need to be kept in mind by someone looking to acquire this old beauty.

Also can you post pictures and also perhaps some groupings from your lady...

[nagarifle]

There are some personal remarks by members which are really off topic and have little substance.

This is just like the wire in above example. A wire which is not deformed out of its natural shape can not be subjected to metal fatigue.

pray tell which dealer has the complete history on any one firearm? of little substance eh

a gun in not a wire to be played with {google is great }

In revolvers this can be checked by looking at the cylinder and frame for almost microscopic cracks at the edges.

who is off topic?

Also the forcing cone is subject to wear and cracks. If this is observed than the weapon is definitely unworthy. In a semi auto hand gun please inspect the front of the slide and ejection port for excessive wear, hairline cracks or pitting. Similarly check for excessive corrosion of the barrel/rifling. If this is observed than same goes for the pistol.

have you not heard of great Indian dealers who can take a wire and make it into a gun? how the hell can someone without expert knowledge and experience do that? monky sh*t.

Examine any screws to see if there are marks suggesting that the gun has been opened. Also marks on the screw heads suggest that it has been opened by someone who does not really know his job and has damaged the screw in the process.

how about new screws, please give the dealers a little intelligent after all they are good at making wire looking like gun.

If possible field strip the gun and carefully examine all parts and surfaces. If a part has been re manufactured than often this can be ascertained by carefully observing the tooling marks, usually they will be more pronounced or will have a different pattern about them.

once again how can inexperienced person do that? it goes to show that cottage industry in not well known as some make us believe.

cylinder and frame for almost microscopic cracks at the edges.

so with the naked eye one can see microscopic cracks? wow what eyesight granny. no being unfair here, i should take my hbble telescope with me.

If these checks are carefully carried out that there is no reason why a 100 year old firearm cannot be used with safety. If still in doubt then get the gun consulted by an expert.

any idea who is an expert in INDIA in these things, heck i have not met one yet. pray give few names for us to consults in India apart from google.

The fact if that there has been very little change in the basic metallurgy of firearms over the past century. The only notable exception to this is use of polymer frames and disuse of Damascus steel. Innovations such as Chrome – Molly or Molybdenum steel

i would say that is more then little.

Neither is there anything particularly advanced about the EN 17 or EN 24 grade steel used by IOF.

too true however its got noting to with 100 old gun.

over all good write up. however one forgets the INDIAN setup, i think the lest said the better.

[goodboy_mentor]

If these checks are carefully carried out that there is no reason why a 100 year old firearm cannot be used with safety. If still in doubt then get the gun consulted by an expert.

All this does not matter in the Indian context where an arms dealer can buy absolute junk and "restore" it into "mint condition" and sell for fantastic premium. Can anyone tell why sometimes arms dealers are willing to pay Rs. 60-70,000 for fully damaged guns with bursted chambers provided they are of "foreign" make? Because he can sell the same for almost 10 times that price because of illegal and unconstitutional restriction on import of firearms. He only needs the serial number of the gun, the paperwork and then he can take care of everything else.

however one forgets the INDIAN setup, i think the lest said the better.

Exactly. We have to realize the present happenings and reality in market.

[miroflex]

Quod erat demonstrandum= which was to be proved.

It might surprise you to learn that you are not the only one with a working knowledge of Latin. My query was related to your free use of a term generally reserved for veracity. I question your comprehension of the expression in sticking this label, on historical first and third person narratives of doubtful integrity. All autobiographies are to be taken with a pinch of salt, the war ones being particularly notorious. I might break your heart to know that in academia, they would not qualify as incontrovertible proof.

Mea culpa. Your knowledge of Latin is probably better than mine.

Churchill was as prone to exaggeration as any of us. Nevertheless it is difficult to say why he would have gone out of his way to praise a German pistol unless it had some merit. Moreover, his was not an isolated case. Many British officers carried the Mauser as a personal sidearm in preference to a revolver. In India, the late Pandit Motilal Nehru, who was as good a judge of weapons as any, owned a Mauser.

The battle of Omduran was not part of the Boer wars. It is what you allude to in your post. While I do not doubt the merits of the Mauser,by your argument, any arm a soldier carries in a war he survives can be said to have saved his life

I had mentioned the Battle of Omdurman as well as the Boer War in my post. In another thread, fellow members had agreed that the .303 had proved its worth by its performance in the Battle of Mons. Surely the Mauser has proved its worth in many encounters and tight corners.

In case both of us agree about the merits of the Mauser, why should we contend with a play of words that takes us nowhere? I agee that its performance can be replicated or exceeded by more modern weapons which are far more easy to carry and bring into use.

Regards.

[TC]

With experienced eyes one can easily differentiate between original ammo and the 'polished' ones.

You yourself depend on imported ammo (.22 hollow point) for self defence and you are telling others not to do so....

Vineet, you and members of your family did not start this thread because it is apparent that you have the experience of handling these weapons and the ability to procure good ammo. The person who sought our opinion (on behalf of his cousin) certainly did not seem to have the same.

Since it is apparent you read my last post shortly before I deleted it because I don't like getting too personal on a public forum (one reason why I never posted pics of any of my firearms ever since I joined in 2006) let me assure you that I load KF, Eley clubs and Lapua (available at clubs, state and national rifle association as well as gun shops across India) with equal confidence. As far as .22 hollow points are concerned, I am sure you will agree that these are more easily available in any state than the Mauser ammo.

I am 45, have already sold my long arms and surrendered two out of four licences. You could say I am almost done with my passion for guns. I visit this forum to relax, share some experience, know a few things and have some fun. That's it.

Hope you will get my point.

Cheers
TC