Seeking info to purchase a new pistol/revolver (BOUGHT IT )

[amk]

I've heard the same about spanish guns penpusher. The Llama is in great condition but I can't justify spending so much since the ashani is available for 1.5. And apparently it runs fine on imported ammo, so that would be ok for carry and indian ammo for the range. But the charter arms confuses the matter, it's available for 2.75ish plus refinishing costs. Looks exactly like a snubbie s&w.

[amk]

James, if you don't mind me asking, why did you sell your ashani and at what price? What's the going rate for a used non contract one now? I've heard one can modify it for button release mag and some other stuff to make it appealing and reliable. I've had my fill of the 1911 look so that's not a great selling point for me.

[mundaire]

As per SAAMI the average max pressure loading for .32 ACP is 20,500 and for the S&W Long it is 15,000.

The .32 ACP produces about 123 ft lbs of energy with a 65 gr JHP bullet.

The .32 S&W Long produces about 99 ft lbs of energy with a 85 gr JHP bullet.

Needless to say, it is not recommended to use .32 ACP ammo in revolvers chambered for the .32 S&W Long (even if the ammo seems to fit fine). This is also listed as a potentially dangerous combination by SAAMI.

The price of the 2nd hand Ashani seems unreasonable, unless substantial work (by a competent 'smith) has gone into improving that particular gun.

I guess the final choice will be based on your personal taste, budget, actual condition of the guns on offer etc. But personally I'd take the Charter Arms revolver - so long as it is mechanically perfect (bluing is merely cosmetic and not something I'd worry about).

Besides a thorough external inspection (in sunlight), if possible have the dealer disassemble it in front of you to ensure that there are no replacement parts/ local springs/ repairs in the lockwork.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[The Doc]

charter arms confuses the matter, it's available for 2.75ish plus refinishing costs.

That again is steep !! Try and bring down the seller please AMK.


best,

RP.

[amk]

As per SAAMI the average max pressure loading for .32 ACP is 20,500 and for the S&W Long it is 15,000.

The .32 ACP produces about 123 ft lbs of energy with a 65 gr JHP bullet.

The .32 S&W Long produces about 99 ft lbs of energy with a 85 gr JHP bullet.

Needless to say, it is not recommended to use .32 ACP ammo in revolvers chambered for the .32 S&W Long (even if the ammo seems to fit fine). This is also listed as a potentially dangerous combination by SAAMI.

The price of the 2nd hand Ashani seems unreasonable, unless substantial work (by a competent 'smith) has gone into improving that particular gun.

I guess the final choice will be based on your personal taste, budget, actual condition of the guns on offer etc. But personally I'd take the Charter Arms revolver - so long as it is mechanically perfect (bluing is merely cosmetic and not something I'd worry about).

Besides a thorough external inspection (in sunlight), if possible have the dealer disassemble it in front of you to ensure that there are no replacement parts/ local springs/ repairs in the lockwork.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Thanks for the power ratings on the acp and s&w cartridges.

What do you think a decent price for a non contractual 2002 Ashani would be? It seems to be in stock condition, no reworking done and almost never fired.

Can a layman like me tell if the Charter Arms mechanical components and safeties are in stock condition and not been tampered with? I don't/won't blindly trust some dealers.

Are all .22LR pistols prone to jams and malfunctions even with decent imported ammo due to the inherent complications of using rimmed carts in a semi auto? If imported ammo can be used reliably for carry and Indian ammo for the range I'm quite tempted by a small .22 too.

Or should I just take the plunge and spend close to 5 lacs and get a big name revolver/pistol like a S&W?

Cheers, AMK

[mundaire]

What do you think a decent price for a non contractual 2002 Ashani would be? It seems to be in stock condition, no reworking done and almost never fired.

Considering the current MRP (incl of taxes) being at around INR 70k, I wouldn't pay more than INR 10K as premium and that too only to avoid the 5 year lock in period. After all, this is not a scarce item and neither is it reasonably priced to begin with. As mentioned before (on several posts here) IOF 's cost of manufacture is under INR 9K. For the kind of price you mention, you can get a fully reworked Ashani from a competent 'smith - without the 5 year lock-in!

Can a layman like me tell if the Charter Arms mechanical components and safeties are in stock condition and not been tampered with? I don't/won't blindly trust some dealers.

Just keep a sharp look out for buggered up screw heads, components that look as if they have been visibly worked on with a file or ones that seem to be cruder in fit & finish than the others. Hand made springs should be easy enough to spot, and are usually the most replaced items.

Or should I just take the plunge and spend close to 5 lacs and get a big name revolver/pistol like a S&W?

If you are not in a rush, wait a bit and contact more dealers - basically try and see if you can evaluate a wider range of handguns before taking the plunge. Usually handgun prices in the metros are higher in comparison to smaller towns & kasbahs. Try and contact other dealers in MH or if you have an all India license, contact dealers from other states as well.

Of course, at the end of the day it's your dime...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[amk]

I checked the Charter Arms, the form looks fantastic but as I said, the finishing needs to be redone. I couldn't tell if the mechanical bits were not butchered even after your advice. Somehow this gun doesn't inspire confidence in me as I don't know this dealer very well. The lower frame is alloy, from the trigger guard to the entire butt stock. It's a very light gun. Will the part alloy frame make it better worse or no affect? Does this alloy fact devalue the gun in your eyes?

On the other hand, the Ashani is in superb condition. I fired 3 Indian rounds from it and it was perfect, surprisingly accurate at a very short distance (5 meters I guess).

I'm a little more keen on a Pistol than a revo since finding out the power ratings of the 2 carts. I've got this phobia in my head that the revolver round is a little anemic compared to the ACP round.

So as I see the cost of a new Ashani for me would be 70k + 10 k ticket to Kolkatta, 5 k staying, 5 k other expenses. That's 90k straight off there. Would 1.25k be ok for the used Ashani.

Need to decide tonight guys.

[amk]

Not yet decided, decided to cool off for a week or so. Any more information would be greatly appreciated.

AMK

[amk]

Guys, saw another very beautiful S&W. This is a model 34-1, .22 LR. Excellent condition, fairly heavy and solid, high velocity ammo like CCI Stinger can be used in it.

So 10 rupee rounds for the range and load it up with stingers for carry/home. What say?

Now the downside, the asking price is as much or may be even more than the .32 S&W snubbies in the market. Is it worth it? How about resale, easy or difficult? Will I lose money big time on this if I decide to sell it?

AMK

[Hunter]

Hi Amk,

Apologies if I have missed the point,but are you sell your 1911a1?

[penpusher]

Firing higher velocity .22 ammo from a short barreled revolver is not going to give you any appreciable improvement on Muzzle velocity over regular stuff.In fact,regular stuff may be more accurate than the hv ammo.Also,to obtain higher velocities,most manufacturers use a lighter bullet.Not a good thing,in my view for any self defence situation.

[amk]

Hi Amk,

Apologies if I have missed the point,but are you sell your 1911a1?

No

AMK

[amk]

Firing higher velocity .22 ammo from a short barreled revolver is not going to give you any appreciable improvement on Muzzle velocity over regular stuff.In fact,regular stuff may be more accurate than the hv ammo.Also,to obtain higher velocities,most manufacturers use a lighter bullet.Not a good thing,in my view for any self defence situation.

So what's the point of the HV rounds then, mainly for rifles?

AMK

[mundaire]

Penpusher is correct, muzzle velocity is very dependant on barrel length. Basically every cartridge (bullet+powder combo) has an optimum barrel length which will allow for a complete powder burn and therefore maximise the projectile velocity, any addition to the barrel length (over & above the optimum) would only result in somewhat slowing down the projectile (due to friction).

Pistols and shotgun cartridges are usually loaded with fast burning powder while rifle cartridges are loaded with slower burning powder.

I think a net search may be able to throw up more information on the different MV 's you should be able to expect from the barrel length (of the gun in question).

I've only ever used CCI Stingers and Rem Yellow Jackets in the .22 high/ hyper velocity category. Both come loaded with metal plated hollow point ammo, which should (hopefully) give somewhat better expansion - a proper test by shooting into blocks of wax/ ballistic gel would allow for a more educated comparison. Am sure someone would have posted results from just such a test somewhere on the net.

In the accuracy department sub-sonic .22 ammo wins every time, but you are not buying this gun for paper punching and at SD ranges I think you should not have a problem hitting a man size target with any of the various .22 RF loads...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[mundaire]

Ok, did a quick google and here is what I got:

http://www.milesfortis.us/mcump/mc13.htm
http://www.lasc.us/TaylorPACO22RFSpecialty.htm
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_roundup_22LR.htm

And someone who posted pictures of an expansion/ wound cavity test using clay as the medium:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 43184.html


Eley ''Club'', std velocity

Rem HV

Rem ''Yellow jacket''

CCI ''Stinger''

Winchester ''Hush Power''
These examples below were all fired from full length rifle barrel at 30 feet distance

Cheers!
Abhijeet