Is there any problem in firing hollow point ammo from a MSD Champion?

[UDAYANJADHAV]

Hi, recently a person told me that because msd champion has a bull barrel, it is not able to function properly with hollow point ammo. Further he explained that the bullet will jam, I dont know whether he meant that the case will fail to eject properly or hollow point projectile will cause any issue like jamming in barrel. Has anyone fired hollow point from msd champion? Or anyone heard about such an issue?

[eljefe]

You will have to wait for an actual gun owner to trial and be able to answer your query.
The ‘jam’ is a generic term and can be due to many many causes.
Take for example a heavy Wolff 22lb mainspring May not help underpowered ammo
Another area is the feed ramp where the bullet nose touches When its being stripped from the magazine and being fed into the chamber.feed angle can be steep for a particular nose profile, or will need to be stoned/polished smoother.

A third aspect will be the meplat of the bullet- the nose area. A round nose MAY engage easily in the ramp and be pushed into chamber,allowing the slide to go into battery, as it is called. while a semi wadcutter or a BIG hollow point may not feed so smoothly.

These are a few examples of feeding malfunctions, generically called jams.
So,to check feed with various types of ammo in a particular pistol, will involve using the anticipated ammo, find the road blocks and correct them.

[UDAYANJADHAV]

Thank you for giving this information sir. I was unsure if thjs issue is real or not but at the sams time I got an option of msd commander, so instead of taking any chances I purchased msd commander.

[timmy]

A 1911 with a bull barrel? I'm not sure that i understand how that could be.

The short barreled version of the MSD might share some of the operational issues of other short barreled 1911s, or then again, it might not. Problems with short barreled 1911 operation aren't unknown (when comparing operation with normal 5" or shorter Colt Commander versions.

Here, even though there are many versions and makers of 1911 pattern pistols, the implementations of each manufacturer are different, so one can't epect the performance of all short barreled versions to be the same.

Also, there's considerable variation in hollow point ammunition. The shape of the bullet has a lot to do with feed reliability. Some hollow point bullets try to maintain the same shape as the Full Metal Jacket, or Ball bullets. Others may be of the "truncated cone" design, where the part of the bullet outside of the cartridge case has a straight taper to the flat end, which also contains the hollow point.

Looking over penetration data for 32 Auto ammunition, it is interesting how loads and bullets which seem to be the similar in velocity and weight differ widely in penetration. Looking at pictures of each brand of ammunition, it's not immediately obvious that there are differences in the shape of bullets, but the penetration results show that even slight variations in shape make a difference. I expect that this is also true with various bullet shapes in individual 1911 guns: what types of ammunition work in an individual gun can offer differing operational results, and then there's variations between different manufacturers' versions of 1911s, plus variations between individual guns from the same manufacturing line.

You might get a hint when others provide performance issues from their brand and configuration of 1911, if you specify what brand of hollow point ammunition is used.

But you will never know for sure about how ammunition will perform until you try it out yourself on your gun. This may not be a big deal in some forms of target shooting, but if you are using your gun for self defense, being confident that it will perform as expected when called upon is a very important issue for obvious reasons. Shooting the ammunition in your gun is the only reliable way of determining this.

As a direct answer to your question, my Colt version 1911 has always shot whatever I've fed it reliably. Most bullets have been standard issue 230 grain ball, cast versions of that bullet, Sierra truncated cone 185 and 240 grain hollow points, and 185 grain Hornady hollow points. Ohter than the government issue ball, I doubt that this information would pertain to your situation very much, but there it is.

[UDAYANJADHAV]

Thats some good information to keep in mind, thank you Timmy.

[timmy]

You're welcome. I'm not sure what help it is, as my Colt isn't quite the same as your Malhotra.

Also, My ammo isn't for self defense, it's just for targets at the range.

Big brands well known for self-defense performance are Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, Federal HST, and Hornady Critical Duty, although perhaps Hornady Critical Defense is more suited to compact pistols with short barrels (less than 4 inches)

I have bought some Federal Punch in 9mm, as the five loads listed above (they are also available in 9mm) are too expensive for me. Punch is almost half the price and is supposed to expand well. When I get a new 9mm next year, I will try them out.

It is a real shame that ammo quotas are so limited. It makes things so hard to do proper testing and practice. All one can do is his best

[UDAYANJADHAV]

Going a little off topic timmy, from your previous reply I know you have colt 1911, I want to understand how to train with a 1911. Like proper grip, stance, recoil management, reloading etc. Since you already have quite a lot of experience, your inputs can save me a lot of time, money and ammunition.

[timmy]

I want to understand how to train with a 1911. Like proper grip, stance, recoil management, reloading etc. Since you already have quite a lot of experience, your inputs can save me a lot of time, money and ammunition.

It's very difficult to satisfy your request because, for one thing, many books have been written about the subjects you mention, and now many videos have been made about them, as well. More writing and videos, some of both having good content, will be written and made in the future. So, it's pretty well impossible for me to say something in a forum post or two that can possibly address such a broad range of subjects and be particularly meaningful.

For one thing, my 1911 is more similar to the Guardian, rather than the Champion that you have asked about in this thread. There are differences here, some of which I don't know about. I do know that short barreled 1911s, including "compacts" (which not only have short barrels, but also shorter grips) are more finicky about feeding than the 5" and Commander sized 1911s are. How this might affect a Champion, I don't know at all.

While we may say that both Malhotras are 1911 design, or style, I still don't know whether they copy the Colt/Browning safety. This is of utmost importance for carry, concealed carry, and self defense, because it determines whether the gun can be carried "cocked and locked." Another recent thread here has a link to a previous post which I made, describing the 1911 safety, which positively blocks the cocked hammer when it is applied. So many safeties only block the trigger or sear, which makes the safety depend on the cocking notch on the hammer and the nose of the sear to prevent an accidental discharge. Years of our collective firearms knowledge tells us that if the gun falls to the ground and, for example, hits the sidewalk or something hard when it lands on the hammer, the cocking notch and/or sear will break, causing a discharge of the weapon. This is not safe!

The Webley style revolver isn't safe either, for other reasons: if dropped, even when not cocked, and a round is under the hammer, the gun can discharge.

So, in these cases, when a person is carrying such a firearm, if the gun falls out of the holster while the carrying person is changing a flat tire, or is in a tussle with a goon, or one's child runs up and hugs, knocking the gun out -- or, any number of things that people do or can have happen, the gun can come out and there can be a discharge. It is negligent for such a thing to happen.

Because I've never handled a Malhotra, I can't tell you that it is safe. That's something you have to assume responsibility for finding out.

About my experience: most of my handgun shooting has been bullseye shooting -- shooting at targets. I have reloaded (mostly with bullets I've cast) and fired a lot of thousands of rounds doing this. So, I can talk about that. I can talk a little about shooting vermin with handguns, primarily, but not only, 38 Special revolvers. Now that I carry a lot, I have divided my handguns into recreational (mostly target shooting one handed) and concealed carry / self defense (mostly two handed). My 1911 falls into the recreational carry half of things. I did shoot some combat sort of shooting with it many years ago, but that's it.

Some self defense shooting isn't 1911 specific. I've written about holsters, for instance, and that would have some things to say about how you carry. Also, I use the isosceles stance for two handed shooting, but there are others which are also commonly used. That's something you will have to make your own mind up as far as what suits you. Stance, in other words, doesn't have a right way and a wrong way -- there are several ways that people do this.

Recoil management is another issue. I can tell you that there were times in my youth when I thought that the more, the better, and I worked up reloads that were as hot as I dared to shoot. More than once at the range, I would shoot with tears running down my cheeks because of the recoil. I worked myself up to think that pulling the trigger wasn't going to hurt -- the hurt came after -- which allowed be to actually shoot groups with those loads. For handguns, I loaded up my Ruger 45 Colt revolver with loads quite equal to those my brother fired out of his 44 Magnum. These were the sorts that I could really feel in my feet when they went off. I haven't shot those sorts of loads for a long time.

Once you figure out that the gun isn't going to blow up in your face and that you can have faith in it, recoil then comes down to two things: pain and natural flinching reaction. Shooting the factory loads in any of my handguns doesn't hurt me. But, maybe it will hurt someone else -- I can't say. Beyond having the proper grip, there's not a lot that I can say to someone who experiences pain when shooting. My Wife shoots her own 22 pistol with no problem, and she's shot my 38 Special revolvers (using fairly light loads -- which is all I use in them) with no problem, as well.

So, if you're using the proper grip and shooting the gun still causes pain, then I wouldn't know what to say. Maybe you just can't shoot it in that case. I have a "Star" in 9mm -- this is a copy of the Soviet Tokarev chambered in 9 x 19mm -- that I find uncomfortable to shoot. The grip is at an odd angle, is narrow and oddly shaped, and it has a tendency for the trigger guard to bang away at my middle finger. Also, the sharp edges of the trigger guard cut at my trigger finger. It's not fun to shoot. My 1911 is like driving a big luxury car, however. These things can be personal.

Grip: stick the 1911 into the web of your hand between the thumb and forefinger. The web of your hand should be right up against the spur that sticks out under the hammer. The gun should be straight -- aligned with your arm. Close your fingers and thumb around the grip firmly, but don't squeeze it to death.

I have always shot with both eyes open, but in my old age I may have to start using my left eye only. You want the front sight to be in focus -- that's the primary thing. You will never be able to have the back sight, front sight, and target in clear focus. Our eyes don't work that way. Have the front sight in focus, and you will have to deal with the rest. There's lots of material on what the right sight picture looks like and how you align it with the target. I suggest that your reading should start with good books. Forget the internet or videos. Stick with someone who is an expert and after you have read and shot some, you can consider reading other stuff, because you'll be better able to sort out the BS, so much of which is floating about nowadays.

Where the center of the whorl is on my index finger fingerprint -- that's where I press on the trigger. Others have other ways, but that's how I do it.

Reloading: I very much like reloading. It's good fun and very satisfying to shoot the ammo I've reloaded and made bullets for. (bullet casters often call cast bullets as "boolits." This drives some people crazy, but it is a good way to differentiate store bought bullets from the ones that one has cast.) All of this is great fun for rifle, pistol, and shotgun, but the sad news is that you can't do it in India. You can't get the components to reload.

And this leads to the saddest part of the story: getting good at shooting handguns is very dependent on doing a lot of it. If you are applying the right techniques, the more you shoot, the better you will become at it. Having the ammo quotas that India imposes on gun owners and not being able to reload is a HUGE problem in being able to use a gun properly -- any gun. If you aspire to become good, your best course of action would be to shoot competitively in clubs, and upgrade your license for a larger quota of ammunition. Another thing you can do is to shoot an airgun -- a pistol. This will help you a lot in your hold and lining up targets, as well as trigger technique. Rapid fire, getting use to recoil, and that sort of thing can't be done with an airgun, but you should do whatever you can to achieve improvement, even if it is not the perfect solution.

Why don't you start here, and then grow your interests as time goes on?

[amk]

I fired around 10-15 JHP of S&B (IIRC). No problems at all.

[Respectful]

Good feedback given. I would like to add in short barrel Autos - Most of the times you will notice on Ammo that are specifically designed or quoted to work on them on market - they use lighter bullets why fly at higher velocity to compensate for the stiff recoil springs needed to cycle the Slide on the shorter barrel weapons. Just a thought. so if the ammo is not hot enough it can cause stoves. Assuming "bullet will Jam" The ball Ammo will always work better but how open the hollow point are matters. It all about finding per gun by testing it to make sure which design works best. In reloading you can adjust or the AOL within safe limits to help But in factory loads they are set to be able to work in most firearms. IF a Gun Smith is available he can help at times - polishing the ramp, etc. Safe bet is find the best target ammo that works and a defense load of hollow point that works good. Most Hollow Point designs nowadays with good brand names are of a quality that will do its job - so see what is available test it when you can purchase on your quota available. Most gun manufactures also might have some recommended ammo they have tested on which might be available if support is available. The 1911 front - I dont have much to say on the shooting stance as I shot always 2 handed whatever stance I am comfortable with. But it is so customizable as far on the frame if the smith is available. I had my Colt Commander and Colt Delta Elite customize with longer beaver tail (so it fits good over the hand than std), Larger Safety put in so you can press the gun downward with the thumb to help in recoil, Solid State Recoil Setup, custom adjustable Skelton Trigger - polish barrel at the ramp end - Beveled Magwell to allow 10 rnd Chip McCormack MAg and different sights put in ...all made a different in shooting most accurate where most decent loaded factory or your own will make one ragged hole at 20 FT or so. Colts are the cream of 1911's - Although now Turks and a lot of other manufacture integrate many of these features to help without needing special smith. I just happen to run into a good one of the family's owned firearms FFL/SOT business at the time when they were not available like that and it cost quite a bit to get those features in even when discounted as the smith has to make his bread too. My 16 yr old is best liking is the 45ACP and 10 mil colts as they shoot so sweet! Even without a lot of features. Love the slow moving Freight train of the bullet. IF loaded in low end you can see the bullet fly into target is sitting nearby. Having a compensate barrel or setup also allows for fast accurate flow ups.