45Acp 38 super pistol

[Ganesh TT]

Dear IFGIan

I was watching one tamil movie yesterday. In this film a actor provides below specification about his combat model pistol

- caliber as 45ACP 38 Super
- Trigger single action
- Magazine capacity - 8 rounds
- weight - 1077 grams
- Length - 216mm
- Height - 134 mm
- Barrel length - 127 mm

My question is

Is any pistol have double/dual caliber model
Do anybody know about this pistol and model no

[TC]

This should help you.... all the .38 supers you want to see are up for sale ..

http://www.gunsinternational.com/-38-Su ... cat_id=242

TC

[Skyman]

no, unless they are close, eg .454 casull revolvers can fire .44 mag also ( ruger ) but not vice versa.,45 and .38 super quite far apart

[TwoRivers]

no, unless they are close, eg .454 casull revolvers can fire .44 mag also ( ruger ) but not vice versa.,45 and .38 super quite far apart

I hope you meant to write ".45 Colt" not ".44 Magum". You'd most likely regret if you did what you wrote. The .454 Casull has a longer, beefed-up case than the .45 Colt, and operates at over twice the pressure. A like relationship exists with .44 Magnum and .44 Special; .357 Magnum and .38 Special. Though there the pressure difference is not as extreme.

[Bill Poole]

your movie technical advisers don't know any more about guns than ours!

the 1911 (see the "greatest handgun ever" thread elsewhere on IFG) was introduced in .45 ACP (in, you guessed it, 1911). To many of us, the words 1911 and .45 are almost interchangeable.

then in the mid 1920's I think, Colt made a more powerful version of the mild .38 Auto and called it .38 Super and chambered the 1911 for it. The .38 super had a mild following in the US for a few years... For a while it was "the most powerful handgun" (kinetic energy only, not bullet mass) then S&W brought out the .357 mag, then later the .44 Mag etc.... Then it practically died out in the US, but in Mexico, due to some odd law where only the military could use .45 ACP (you all'd call that PB) the police and civilians used .38 super. It became hugely popular down there! as I understand it the law has been amended so that the military gets .45 and 9mm and civilians can only use LESS powerful pistols, like .380 or .38 spec... To this day, in the US, .38 super is associated with Mexico. But in recent years, IPSC shooters have started using it in "race guns" fancy modified target pistols for action shooting.

Since then the 1911 has been chambered in a few other calibers (9mm, 10mm, .40 S&W, .38 special wadcutter, .22 LR and probably others) but all of them are immoral! a 1911 should ONLY be chambered in .45 ACP, PERIOD! with just a few exceptions: if you speak spanish or are willing to learn, then .38 super is acceptable, especially if the pistol is very bright and gaudy! If you shoot Bullseye pistol (a precision shooting sport almost identical to the olympic/ISSF standard pistol type of shooting) and you already have a gun in .45 then it is permissible to get one in .22LR and another for .38 spec wadcutter (a target bullet style that sits fully in the case).

9mm and .40 S&W in 1911 are obscene and immoral! if you want that, get a browning high power or a glock!

the dimensions quoted (after I translated them to INCHES!) describe a standard, full sized, "government model" 1911. And it would be highly unlikely for it to be dual caliber, the entire upper half would have to be changed.

where was I? oh yeah, so the movie makers probably meant... its a 1911 in .38 super!

just one gora's biased opinion!

Poole

[Baljit]

9mm and .40 S&W in 1911 are obscene and immoral!


Poole can you explane me what make you think this, i have 1911 in 9MM and 40S&W and i love it.


Baljit

[Bill Poole]

the 1911 should be .45, (maybe .38 super) to make a 1911 in 9mm or .40 s&w is an insult to the great memory of John Moses Browning, an act of blasphemy!!!! a terrible thing to do the greatest pistol in all of human history!

its a joke! enjoy your 9 & 40 Bhai

Poole

[Ganesh TT]

Hi guys, below is the screen shot of the pistol im talking about. can anybody identify the pistol (sorry for the clarity of the picture as i can able to get this clarity only)

[Vikram]

Looks like a Desert Eagle.

[Bill Poole]

looks longer than 216mm

[timmy]

The 38 Super was indeed a development of the 38 ACP. Loaded to pressures similar to the 9mm P, with its larger case, it is more powerful than the 9mm P, driving the same bullet at a higher velocity.

The 9mm P is a shorter cartridge, which allows it to be used in pistol actions that are not as long as the action length required to handle the 38 Super. Thus, some of the bulk of the 1911 is somewhat wasted when it is chambered in 9mm P, as compared to the 38 Super.

However, all is not sweetness regarding the 38 Super. It uses the same case as the 38 ACP, and like other Browning - designed cartridges (such as the .32 ACP), it is a semi-rimless case, which means that the rim is of larger diameter than the case, but not as large in diameter relative to the case as revolver cartridge rims, like the 38 Special and the 44 Magnum. This gave a means to headspace the cartridge on the rim, but not have the rim "catch on another round when fed through an action with a magazine.

For the benefit of those who are not familiar with the term "headspace," let me briefly explain what this critical dimension is in a cartridge firearm. In order that the brass of the cartridge case is not over-stressed, it must fit closely into the chamber of the weapon. This keeps the expansion limited to a small and workable amount. However, if the cartridge dimension is too close to the size of the chamber, then the cartridge will be difficult to seat in the chamber.

So, the cartridge has to be small enough to feed reliably, yet not so small that its expansion, when fired, causes the case to split and spew hot gasses all over the place.

For a rimmed cartridge, the rim keeps the cartridge from going too far into the chamber, and there is a slight clearance between the back of the rim and the bolt or revolver frame. That clearance is the headspace, and it must not be either too great or too little.

For a bottleneck shaped cartridge, like the .30-'06, the shoulder of the cartridge, or part that narrows, stops the cartridge from going too far into the barrel. When the cartridge is pushed up to the bottleneck area of the chamber, there is a clearance between the bolt or frame of the gun, and that clearance is the headspace dimension for a bottleneck cartridge, functioning like the same dimension in a rimmed cartridge and chamber.

However, you will say, the 45 ACP and 9mm P don't have a rim or a bottleneck to headspace on. So what keeps them from being seated too far into the chamber?

These cartridges seat on the mouth of the case. That's why the bullets for these cartridges must be "taper crimped" into the case, rather than using a rolled crimp like revolver ammunition. The sharp edge of the case headspaces against a matching ridge in the chamber to keep the round from being seated too deeply.

Back in 1912, Holland & Holland introduced the .375 H&H Magnum. It was a bottleneck cartridge, but the angle of the bottleneck was too shallow for the cartridge to headspace on. A rim was not wanted, since rimmed cartridges don't feed well in magazine bolt action rifles, so Holland & Holland put a "belt," or ridge, in the back, which was shallow enough to allow cartridges to feed over each other when used in a bolt action magazine rifle, but still deep enough to provide a reliable headspace dimension.

Because so many of the US Magnum rifle cartridges were based on that original .375 H&H case (like 7mm Magnum, 300 Win, and 300 Weatherby), that belt was retained, although the newer cartridges had a sufficient bottleneck on which to headspace. However, hillbillies here in America thought that the belt was there to provide extra strength to the case, without understanding its function in the original cartridge. In the USA, "Magnum" equaled "Belted" for many years, and still does with some, although "magnum" is simply a size of wine bottle and was intended to mean a bigger than normal cartridge case. today, besides the original, the 458 Win Mag is the only common cartridge based on the belted magnum case that actually needs the belt!

Back to the 38 Super: The 1911 pistol design, based on the 45 ACP cartridge that headspaced on the cartridge mouth, had a "hood" on the top of the barrel, extending back from the chamber The rest of the chamber was cut away. This was no problem for the 45 ACP, but the 38 ACP/38 Super case headspaced on the rim, and the small surface provided by that hood did not give a reliable headspace dimension for the pistols chambered for this cartridge.

Back in the 70s, some folks who were using 38 Super for "pin guns" and other competition recovered accuracy by having custom barrels made up with a ridge in the chamber and headspacing the 38 Super case on that ridge, just like 45 ACP does.

I don't know how 38 Super pistols are made today, but this was one of the drawbacks to the ones made a few years back.

However, the 38 Super is a fine cartridge and makes the most of the action length in the 1911 design.

[Baljit]

Timmy Here is the picture for you my SVI 38 Super in open race gun,this is the gun i am useing when i am shooting in ipsc it's custom made gun.i dont have this anymore because my back not allowed me to shoot anymore.




Baljit

[timmy]

That's quite a piece of work, Baljit! It's like an F1 racer for one's hand!

Thanks for sharing!

[xl_target]

Hi guys, below is the screen shot of the pistol im talking about. can anybody identify the pistol (sorry for the clarity of the picture as i can able to get this clarity only)

Yup, that's no 1911, it's the infamous "DEagle". (yuck)


It was chambered for the following calibers:
.50 Action Express
.44 Magnum
.357 Magnum
.440 Cor-bon
.41 Magnum
.357/44
and never in .38 Super or .45 ACP

You can read more about it HERE and HERE

[Bill Poole]

It's like an F1 racer for one's hand!

and THAT's why we call them "Race Guns"!



Poole