.45 ACP And its substitute

[Vineet]

We are talking about stopping power.If 9mm Luger lacks stopping power,the 7.62 Tokarev is going to be worse.

Yes, I know we are talking about stopping power but we are also considering availabilty in the Indian market.
Whats the point to mention .357 magnum, .44 magnum, .50 AE etc when they are not available to us.
The most powerful round, easily available in India, is 7.62 Tokarev.

For stopping a person, you need to carve a bigger hole in body.
I guess, it doesnt matter, if bullet passes through or remains in the body.. it should make a big hole in body

Size of the hole doesn't matter, what matters the most is the shot placement.

[TwoRivers]

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Hence the recomendation for stopping power.They will stop a bear, won't they?

Not "will", but can. If hit just right; and the bullet manages to penetrate deep enough. But so will a .22 LR if you manage to put the bullet exactly in the right place. Bullet placement, nothing else counts. Unless it's Naga's 105mm.

[winnie_the_pooh]

If .45 s go so cheap, might ge me a nice 1911 one of these days.

That just tells me that you do not have a license .........and hence do not have a firearm..... and hence do not know what you are talking about.

If shot placement was everything,I wonder why the armies of the world have not switched over to .22 rimfire.It is a surprisingly good 'penetrator' as well.

[Skyman]

Hence the recomendation for stopping power.They will stop a bear, won't they?

Not "will", but can. If hit just right; and the bullet manages to penetrate deep enough. But so will a .22 LR if you manage to put the bullet exactly in the right place. Bullet placement, nothing else counts. Unless it's Naga's 105mm.

A big bullet will compensate for bad placement.Thats the idea.No one has time to hit arteries in a fire fight, do they?

Yes a .22 lr needs to go through the eye.what are the odds of that?

That just tells me that you do not have a license .........and hence do not have a firearm..... and hence do not know what you are talking about.


Relax, it's wishful thinking.

[Ganesh TT]

im a great fan of .45 Acp & I like colt 1911 models.
I agree with vineet and tworivers. Placement of bullet in human body results in stopping power. If someone shoots in thigh or arms of enemy even in any high penetration caliber definitively the enemy will not stop to attack. So its all about placing the bullet in correct part of the enemy body. I believe even shooting with .22 or .177 caliber air guns in neck or important organ on the human can give good stopping power of the enemy

[Skyman]

If someone shoots in thigh or arms of enemy even in any high penetration caliber definitively the enemy will not stop to attack. So its all about placing the bullet in correct part of the enemy body.

Do you know some rifle rounds can tear arms off and shatter the femur? That will stop someone.That is the logic behind high power bullets.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Just waiting for some one to declare that he will carry on the discussion after doing his homework

[Skyman]

I take it you are talking to me. XL Target, back me up.

A 50 cal will go through an engine block, but not break bones?

[timmy]

Vikram provided the link to the thread where one can download an extensive FBI report on this issue. It would be well, to echo winnie's suggestion, for that document to be read by some here, IMO. The conclusions reached in that paper mention the points/arguments brought up in this thread, discuss them, and reach a conclusion that I feel has a lot of merit.

However, sticking to the point of varunik's initial question, it would seem that 7.62x25 Tokarev might well be the caliber that offers the best tradeoff between power and availability. It does have a considerable amount of penetration. How that might affect its choice would depend on the circumstances that might be encountered when shooting it. One thing I can attest to: when it is fired, it WILL get everyone's attention!

As an owner of a Norinco copy of the original Tokarev TT 33 and a Czech CZ 52, I would choose the CZ 52 hands down for a carry weapon. It is large, and there are many delicate parts in it. Also, the firing pin is prone to breakage if the weapon is dry fired. However, unlike the TT 33, it can be carried safely with a round in the chamber and it is lighter. The fact that it can be carried loaded is the major reason for picking it.

I only own them both, so this is just a personal opinion, mind you. I also own a 1911 and it would clearly be the choice, were circumstances in India different, but they are not, so the discussion of the .45 ACP's "stopping power" (assuming one even accepts that term) is somewhat divergent to varunik's question.