my iof revolver jams

[dev]

good morning sunshine it is a 32.

[winnie_the_pooh]

In the over 10 years of owning and firing IOF revolvers/pistols,I have only fired KF ammo in them and NEVER had a case split.I am not saying it can't happen but that it must be extremely rare.

A cylinder expanding and binding up is also something I am hearing for the first time.I would have expected the poster to post some data that can be relied upon rather than photos which prove nothing other than that a case split.For the record,I have had cases split when firing really old Kynoch .32 ACP ammo..The pistol did not malfunction and I noticed that some of the cases had split only when collecting the empties afterwards.

[indigo_indo]

last year when i got delivery of my iof .32 from fgf kanput i met a genlteman from u.p. who said that he will get rid of powder coating and some good gunsmith will disassemble the new gun and re-polish and refurbish all the moving parts and apparently will give a new look to the gun by coating it golden or silver plating.

the idea appeled to me much and i also had chat with a reputed gun smith in punjab and accordingly he said same things .According to him the cylinder is little bit ( say 1 or 2 mm ) short in length and the groove on axis of the cylinder which guides the clockwise movement of cylinder is bigger than the guide groove. the more i listened more he criticised the product and finally convinced me that the iof product is just the number ( of the weapon and legal entity ) it carries and rest all is bullshit....

well there can be many issues but we are living in a world where we can have latest cars but the oldest weapons for self defense.....

in mi opinion if a person or gunsmith charges say 10 to 25 k and assures to rectify all the problems a new gun is always better than old ones..... regarding the gun smiths , kaarigaron ki kami nahi india main...

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

Is this the pictured Magtech round?

http://www.magtechammunition.com/store/ ... 2itemList=

I personally prefer plated bullets because leading in barrel is reduced.

Full jacketed or half jackets are fine.

I would check fired cartridges to see if primers are backing out. This is usually the cause of

cylinder binding after firing. Oversize primer pockets, undersized or wrong primer, too much powder

resulting in over pressure causing primer to back out or primer flattening against breech face and flowing

back into firing pin hole. The latter can be a cause of soft primer metal also.

This is common in rifles but not noticed because of different type of action.

38/357 cases are usually good for almost a dozen reloadings DEPENDING on pressure level. Meaning, light target

loads give longer case life. High pressure or Magnum or +P or +P+ loads give shorter life.

My personal Favorite S & W is the Model 57 and Model 58 chambeed in 41 Remington Magnum

I have gotten over 50 reloads per case using Target loads, 210 grain hard cast bullet at 900 fps.

With full magnum load, 210 jacketed bullet, 1200 fps, case life is greatly reduced to anywhere

between 5 to 12+ reloads.

Usually the case splits at the mouth.

Length wise splits in the middle may indicate a sloppy or slightly oversize chamber.

Join this forum and ask your question: http://smith-wessonforum.com/forum.php

If they don't have the answer, the question doesn't exist.

[winnie_the_pooh]

YogiBear,

In Olly's case,you will notice that the fired cases have a pronounced bulge.The KF case has expanded more.That,to me indicates an oversize chamber.Also,the KF case seems to have a slightly flattened primer as compared to the magtech one.It could be that the Magtech case has a slightly thicker rim. Or it could be that the rim on that particular KF case was slightly undersize , allowing it to back out on firing.

I would think that a new recoil shield,should cure his problem.But as long as he does not take out at least a vernier caliper,or take the revolver to a gunsmith who knows something,we will not know anything.

I wonder how many times Olly has fired his revolver and out of that how many times he faced a problem with KF cases splitting?

[mundaire]

Photos of split cases look like the brass was improperly annealed/ not annealed at all...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[ckkalyan]

Good one Abhijeet Photos of split cases look like the brass was improperly annealed/ not annealed at all...

Maybe the creators left the 'Br' out of the Br-Ass =

Annealing, in metallurgy and materials science, is a heat treatment wherein a material is altered, causing changes in its properties such as strength and hardness. It is a process that produces conditions by heating to above the critical temperature, maintaining a suitable temperature, and then cooling. Annealing is used to induce ductility, soften material, relieve internal stresses, refine the structure by making it homogeneous, and improve cold working properties.

In the cases of copper, steel, silver, and brass, this process is performed by substantially heating the material (generally until glowing) for a while and allowing it to cool. Unlike ferrous metals—which must be cooled slowly to anneal—copper, silver[1] and brass can be cooled slowly in air or quickly by quenching in water. In this fashion the metal is softened and prepared for further work such as shaping, stamping, or forming.

.....OR CRACKING UP 'slowly' UNDER IOF PRESSURE

[YogiBear]

Aloha winnie,

You're correct. After looking again more closely, it looks likethe Magtech is larger and has a thicker rim.

If that's the case, that's the reason it split.

Poor quality or bad manufactoring practices.

[winnie_the_pooh]

These are two empties of cartridges I fired in my friends IOF .32 revolver.No bulges and no splits.I could not upload the photo here,so I have posted the link.

http://s737.photobucket.com/albums/xx19 ... to0055.jpg

[Olly]

The revolver may have fired about 150 rounds in all. There are about 5-6 split cases when KFs are fired. However, there are no split cases for foreign ammo.

If we talk about the bulge we assume a oversized cylinder. Why don't all the cases have that 'bulge', because the 'faulty' cylinder/s is the same and will keep rotating every 6 rounds.

Not all KFs cause the revolver to jam. It has happened 4 or 5 times out of which a couple of times the Big Gun, Dev, NM were present. However, ironically, on 'good days' the revolver will fire upto 20-25 rounds without any problems ! I've scratched my head and lost a few hairs too, to understand this...

The revolver has NEVER had any problems with imported rounds. I must say that I've only tried Magtechs and S&Bs only. I've fired all six rounds a couple of times, in rapid mode, with NO PROBLEMS !!!! Maybe my revolver has a brain and gets cozy with the foreign ones only !

The debate is on...

[winnie_the_pooh]

So you have fired about 12 rounds of Magtech/S&B's and about 138 rounds of KF?

[dev]

The reincarnation of a Brit revolver seems to favour phirang rounds. The problem is that most gunsmiths in Delhi would advise you to leave it alone and just use Magtechs instead.The only one who can do anything is the wizard at Patiala. The problem being that he charges more than a king's ransom for such work.

[mundaire]

Since IOF ammo overall has issues w.r.t uniform sizing, it is entirely possible that they make their chambers slightly oversize to compensate for this - just guessing here as without using a vernier and actually doing the measurements on cannot say for sure. As to that, if you would like your IOF ammo rounds/ chamber/ cylinder measured I'd be happy to do so for you, just let me know when

However, since just a few of the IOF/ KF rounds had split cases, I'd be betting that it is to do with the quality of the brass and not so much to do with the revolver.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Olly]

Even I am harping on the fact that the KF quality control has gone monkeys and there is little or no consistency...

Ofcourse, Abhijeet, I'll make sure I'll carry the Vernier and the revolver next time we meet, here or there !

[xl_target]

Case failure is at the worst place . Bad bad brass quality if it happens for the first time shooting . Brass failure happen if you reload same brass for 8 to 12 times for normal loads and 6 to 10 times for hot loads if you are reloading your own ammo . First time shooting and brass failure at that level is considerably dangerous . Save your firearm and get rid of shiety ammo - Haji

Or if the metal is attacked by some chemical like Brasso. I'm not saying that this is the case in this instance but that is one possible cause of case failure.

In Olly's case,you will notice that the fired cases have a pronounced bulge.The KF case has expanded more.That,to me indicates an oversize chamber.

If the chamber was oversize, all the fired cases (imported and KF) would show the same bulge.

I personally prefer plated bullets because leading in barrel is reduced.
Full jacketed or half jackets are fine.

With a quota of 10 cartridges a year, leading is the least of their worries. However your point about primers backing out is valid. Keep in mind, though, that it should not start working again when cooled, if it is caused by the primer backing out.