Indians For Guns

I am not a shotgunner by any strech of imagination. However I cant understand the preference of an O/U versus a SxS.

I hove shot both quite a bit, mostly at cans and getting them to bounce around. I havent really seen any difference in accuracy or handling either way. I havent noticed any difference in function either, both are two shot, some have ejectors others do not.

In terms of balance, again in my limited experience.. no difference.
With a pump, I can understand the capacity logic. Beyond that I cant.

I have owned SxS's in the past, and currently own an O/U and a Pump, mainly becuase every once in a while they are fun to shoot. And they to sleep on the floor under the bed.

And I do want a saiga 12 for the fun value... maybe this year.

resistng....... resisting ...... resisting the bait.

moa, thats very tempting bro. Lets see how long i can resist.

Well, MoA, as the Old Swede said: De one got dem barrels side-by-side by each odder, the odder one has dem barrels one on top of each odder." : Cheers.

How about this saying


"Boy, you take after my side of the family and your eyes are "OO" and not stacked one atop the other like your mom's sister , your aunt Edna, put down the O/U and grab the SxS..."

But I own o/u ...

shooter wrote:resistng....... resisting ...... resisting the bait.

moa, thats very tempting bro. Lets see how long i can resist.

I am being serious. I really dont understand the differences...

Some say that an O/U is good to shoot targets in the air and SxS is good for ground targets,don't know how far this saying is true, since I have not tried this out as yet.

"...ludy 'ell,if God wanted man to shoot O/U, he would have given us eyes thataway !"

( Late) Ralph Mitchell, English & Geography Teacher, Baldwin Boys High School, 1978.Scout master,Friend, teacher,Bonehill hammer 32" S/S, 12G owner, stout fella.

I'm a S/S man all my life and couldnt recognise an O/U if it was put into my hands.Citori or Kreighoff.Plus I hate the pistol/Prince of Wales grips.Gimme a slim ,straight stocked S/S any day.My brother does great with a prince of wales stocked 12 BSA.Enough to put me off shotguns for ages.No use, as he simply runs rings, actualy, runs 'possibles' around me...
From what I've "heard" (due allowance requested for poetic licence) its to do with the sighting planes.From the initial 4mm ribs on the O/U,the ribs are getting wider today,double that, as per some ad's I've seen-
all to aid in the sighting.
Not having researched into antiquity recently,Dim memory reminds me of rifles in the BP era which had swing over barrels(today's O/U?)to aid in a fast 2nd shot-the name eludes me just now, but I've had a long day...
having used a O/U 476, i found it impeccable, and being a lousy shotgunner, I did good with an unknown S/S.
Action apart, it must be the balance and the sighting plane.But I doubt the clay or the partridge knew he had been hit with a $30,000 krieghoff, not a New Art Light Works 12 ga Hatoda costing 8k rupees
Saiga-go for it,dunno about partridges with it

Well, not being an shotgunning expert, I do equally well (or equally poorly, depending on what yardstick you use), with either SxS or O/U. Proponents of the O/U will cite the single sighting plane as an advantage. I think that geography also plays a role, if you were born west of the Atlantic, it's O/Us. East, it's SxS. Though the unthinkable seems to be happening, the dreaded disease of the O/U seems to be spreading in the UK. Not that the Brits have not built the finest. As with all shotguns.
For a rifle, especially a heavy, a SxS. The smaller opening angle allows quicker reloading. Likewise in a confined blind, or kayak, for a shotty.
Can't see how one would be better than the other for ground vs. flying targets, that's pure bunk. That would be entirely a matter of the individual stock dimensions.
And with all that, I'd probably reach for my Merkel O/U first. Unless it were a rainy and miserably wet day. Cheers.

ok fine ill do it. firstly i feel inadequate to answer this question. i mean im just a kid.

I have read a few books about shooting. most books today dont discuss this. i mean its taken for granted that any serious shooter would use a sxs right.

bought a second hand book from an exhibition in bisley. written 25 yrs ago by mike reynolds.

the first chapter deals with sxs vs o/u.

I shall quote directly:

"
The o/u proves itself to be absolutely ideal for clay shooting and in my opinion any form of shooting.In all its shapes and forms it has the advantage of extra weight and what is termed as "pointability". The sxs is good for driven birdsbut it cant match the o/u in its versatility.
"

"

I would estimate that if any of our best shots were to shoot the same 100 bird course with an o/u and a sxs, he would shoot 4-6 targets higher with the former allowing him to be a regular user of both.

"

Both the above quotes from pages 16-17 of "shooting made easy".

Please note that this represents a 5% better score in the hands of an expert. Maybe more for a newbie.

Some advantages are:

full pistol grip
added weight

i dont want to get too technical but if one has shot driven, one realises that the pointability and the sighting plain dont matter in an overhead driven target. Hence the popularity in this particular form of shikar.

But when it comes to crossers and quartering away........well thats another story.

i wont get into the details of why the pointability and the sighting plain dont matter in an overhead driven target for the fear of getting too technical and also because im not good enough to offer technical details. in this target. If youre intrested, im happy to try my best.

-- 29 Jan 2010, 22:30 --

this is for moa.

how many times have you been offered a chance to be taken to the range in a pick up and drop off service so that you can experience these technicalities first hand?

shooter wrote: this is for moa.

how many times have you been offered a chance to be taken to the range in a pick up and drop off service so that you can experience these technicalities first hand?

Weekend after Valentine's... if youre not duck hunting or something. You're on

Full pistol grip and added weight are not exclusive to O/Us. Both can be built into a SxS, and usually are into the cheaper ones; as well as a straight grip for an O/U. An alu receiver can reduce an O/Us weight. SxS aficionados will point to the lighter weight and better balance of the SXS (in their opinion). So those arguments pretty much fall flat. It really comes down to individual preference and gun fit. Not that for some types of shooting, and some people, one may not have a slight advantage. The O/U, though, tends to stay tight longer than a SxS of same quality. But few of us really shoot that much, unless we are competition shooters. Cheers.

Pointability and sighting plane are distinct advantages unless one wants to:

I hove shot both quite a bit, mostly at cans and getting them to bounce around.

Full pistol grip and added weight are not exclusive to O/Us. Both can be built into a SxS, and usually are into the cheaper ones; as well as a straight grip for an O/U.

This was said as an answer to the prince of wales grip straight stock post earlier in the thread. Ive my self shot the beretta game o/u with a straight stock.

SxS aficionados will point to the lighter weight and better balance of the SXS (in their opinion).

Weight and balance are two different things. Lighter weight may a hinderance to high volume shooting due to low inertia etc. there have been many posts re. this point.

It really comes down to individual preference and gun fit.

Gun fit is the most imortant but not applicable in o/u vs sxs debate.

re: preference, lemme go back to page 17 of the above mentioned book:

"
You dont see farmers doing their ploughing by horse! You have to take the advantage of innovations that offer improvement
"

BTW this same argument is used by the fans of semis and now has led beretta to make the worlds first break barrel semi:

http://www.ugb25xcel.com/

Narrow sighting plane?

Churchil Game-rib.


Best-
Vikram

Gun fit relates directly to balance and "pointability". Whatever exactly that is. I don't think you can measure that within scientific parameters. So it boils down to individual perception, i.e. stock fit.
A shotgun stocked by an expert stock maker for the individual and his shooting style will have "pointability", regardless of action type.
Weight is of value to the competitive, repetitive, shooter, who stand in place and shoots a lot. Not to the hunter, who walks a lot more than he shoots, and whose targets are most likely unexpected. Excepting driven shoots. So, to claim "weight" as an advantage certainly needs qualification.
One man's opinion, even if he's a top shooter, and writes a book, is not the holy gospel. He undoubtedly has good pointers to offer. But what works for him, might not work for me. Or anyone else.
Back in '67 I attended a skeet shoot in New Hampshire and watched a guy in his fifties go 25-24-25. The best score of the event. With a Winchester M21 SxS, 32" barrels, both full choke. The fellow, a duck hunter of local repute, could shoot. But I wouldn't recommend his gun for skeet. Cheers.

Personally I prefer a cream cake.
You can arrange eclairs as SxS or O/U but choux buns are best thought of as grenades .... although timing is critical when you call for a bird when using a grenade - pull the pin and leave throwing it until too late and you run the risk of blowing your hand off......too early and you`ll miss by a mile. I`d rather take a bite out of the bun.......
Straight grips ? Pistol grips ? I find a fork is best as they handle better and maker far less mess.
Ribs ? Yes please. I like mine with a lot of honey in the sauce and just a hint of smokey flavour. Of course ribs can be SxS or O/U as well......you just have to cut them double. Double ribs are easier to eat as a SxS because most peoples mouths are arranged sideways. I find single barrel ribs are best though because you don`t need such a big mouth.
Wide ribs come from bigger pigs. Narrow ribs from little runts.
Engraving is nice.....but chocolate sauce tastes better on profiteroles.

So SxSs are logical because our eyes are arranged SxS ? On that basis the barrels would have to be an inch apart and the rib a resting place for the nose. The stock would be non-existent or narrow enough to get in the mouth. Of course recoil would then drive the butt through the back of the neck........
Our eyes might be arranged SxS but so what ? A totally spurious argument in favour of the SXS.
The construction of O/Us necessarily makes them a little heavier but lightweight O/Us are available - B.R.Rizzini ( amongst others ) offer O/Us with alloy actions and Bretton Gaucher have produced their super-light Baby Bretton O/U for many years - the least heavy version weighing 2 kg.

Which is better - the O/U or SxS ? Well think of it like this : When was the last time a SxS was used to win a major clay shooting championship ? Top competitors don`t use O/Us because they`re trendy and stylish - they use them because they`re better.
In the field O/Us are rapidly gaining ground on SxS guns even on formal driven bird shoots and all the top gunmakers will sell you an O/U if you want one - yes, including Boss, Purdey and H&H......and have done so for almost a century - Boss patented their O/U in 1909. Woodward patented their first O/U in 1913. Purdey acquired Woodward in 1948 and the Purdey O/U is the Woodward design.

QUOTE : "Proponents of the O/U will cite the single sighting plane as an advantage. I think that geography also plays a role, if you were born west of the Atlantic, it's O/Us. East, it's SxS. Though the unthinkable seems to be happening, the dreaded disease of the O/U seems to be spreading in the UK."

Oh yeah ? O/U shotguns were developed in Europe and in percentage terms O/Us are considerably more popular in Europe than in the US. In the US semi-auto and pump actions far outsell O/Us.
As far as `the dreaded disease` is concerned O/Us have outsold SxSs in the UK for over forty years. In the case of UK new gun sales O/Us outsell SxSs by a huge factor ....... by something in the order of several thousand percent. In most of Europe SxS guns are barely ever seen.

The main advantage of the O/U over the SxS IS the much superior sighting plain although straight line recoil also plays a part. The SxS has the advantage of a considerably lower profile but that is an over-rated concept anyway - if a low profile was of major importance everyone would be using Browning Cynergys ..... except I`ve never seen one at a major championship. Perazzis don`t have a particularly low profile but win more medals than any other manufacturer. SxS Guns invariably have faster handling than O/Us - but fast handling is of minimal importance to a Trap gun. Let`s be honest, a Trap gun has pretty poor handling altogether but neither good or fast handling is necessary for a good Trap gun. I haven`t seen a SxS used in competitive Skeet since I was a kid......and who uses a SxS for competitive Sporting Clays ? No-one.
As far as game shooting - especially bird shooting - is concerned there are advantages to using a SxS in many circumstances but the better manufacturers have improved - and are improving - their O/U game guns. Look at the Perazzi catalogue and you`ll note that all their O/U game guns come standard with a straight hand stock for example.
I like my SxS guns and have used them far more for game/bird shooting than O/Us ..... and will continue to do so. One day I might get my finger out and build an O/U game gun that competes in every way with a SxS ........ or I might not bother but in the meantime I`m going to have another cream cake.