Indians For Guns

I have another question that maybe someone here could enlighten me on .
I mean no offence by this . Again its knowledge im interested in .

Here in the US . We have a rather large # of re-enactors
Our firearms industry here when it comes to Muzzle loading is rather limited in respect to historically accurate examples,.
Now the allowance of when people come to someone like me who can reproduce such examples.

In the last few years a couple companies have began to import some of these examples , such as the Brown Bess models , from India .
These come to The US as non firing . Basically the barrels have not been drilled for flash holes or as with the percussion guns nipple holes drilled an tapped .
These companies often re sell these after they have drilled them . Claiming that they are safe .

Would someone be so kind as to inform me
Would these firearms still have to meet the standards of the IOF ?

Hi Captchee,
Welcome to IFG, please feel free to post your questions and members will be glad to answer them.

These come to The US as non firing . Basically the barrels have not been drilled for flash holes or as with the percussion guns nipple holes drilled an tapped .

Since export of firearms from India is not allowed for private manufacturers, hence the barrels not drilled nor any percussion gun nipple holes drilled(so that they do not legally qualify as "firearms" and be exported as artifact/handicraft/curio etc.)

These companies often re sell these after they have drilled them . Claiming that they are safe .

Unless the companies re selling them are aware of the type/composition/quality of the material used for the barrels and have scientifically tested them, they cannot be considered safe.

Would these firearms still have to meet the standards of the IOF ?

No since they were not "firearms" when exported from India, hence question of testing them by IOF or meeting IOF standards is not applicable.

very good , thank you very much for the information

I am also interested in this and would like to just re-circulate this discussion in case there is any new information.
There is currently a debate going on among American re-enactors about the safety of muzzleloading firearms made in India. I personally feel that there are definitely Indian gunsmiths who are fully capable of making a safe, functional muzzleloading firearm. Most agree that the that the locks on many of these muskets are very functional and spark well. In addition, given that many of these gunsmiths seem to do much of their work by hand, it seems that these guns would end up being more historically accurate in that way.
Still, I don't think that any of these guns are imported into the US as "firearms" with proofed barrels. We have no real way to know which ones would have barrels made from strong steel that's capable of withstanding the pressure of live loads pushing a round ball and which ones are not, or which ones might fail at some point in the future and harm someone. As a result, "Indian guns" are unfairly lumped together. Even though I give credit to the craftsmanship that has to go into these guns, many of us still see using them as a gamble because we have no way of knowing whether they were meant to be used as real guns or just as wallhangers. If we could somehow find information on what kinds of steel are being used on the barrels, especially what alloys and whether they are made as tubes or machined from round stock, that would help greatly.
Here are the websites of some of these importers. If anyone could shed some light on this situation so that we could have real facts instead of pointless hearsay to settle this debate, I'm sure that many here in the states would really appreciate it.

http://www.loyalistarms.ca/muskets.html

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com

http://www.veteranarms.com/Reproduction ... skets.html

Best would be to contact the Indian manufacturers or exporters of these guns to ascertain the facts and quality of material that goes into making the barrels.

Captchee,

I am aware of one manufacturer of replica firearms. His wares are classified as 'handicrafts' and do not require 'proofing' ('prooving' ?) from IOF Poona. Moreover he has no restrictions on quanity and regularly exports to US and Europe.

Could you also let me know how much these retail in the US? I wanted to purchase a flintlock musket from him, but he quoted such and astronomical figure that I just gave up.

I THINK YOU ARE THE BEST PERSON .AND IN THE KATHIAWAR REGION OF GUJRAAT OR MAARWAR SOME RAAJPUT GHARAANA MIGHT GIVE YOU AN ORIGINAL. AND MOREOVER WE ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH QUALITY OF KNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE ;I THINK WHY NOT DEVLOP ONE BY YOURSELF.THE BLUNDERBUUS TYPES U MEAN OR WHAT.? U ALWAYS MAKE ME THINK MORE N MORE. REGARDS

Dear mr Yograj singhji .

You are right that the actual selling price ( inclusive of profit of the locacl dealer in us and all logistics expenses ) will still be down to rather than what so called handicraft makers in india sell .

I think they try to discourage people from copying and getting into competition of their business. I have seen good collection of such artifacts in windlass steel crafts in dehradun but they simply do not sell or just ask for irrelevant figure so that no one can think of buying them.

i think if you manage to visit a museum with your " chela " ( who is good at making swords , with a good photographs of the gun) nothing is impossible for a person of such a deep knowledge or calibre like you.

Muchos information and pics are available on net , and no one is goinfg to match milimetre by milimetre for what you made and waht was orignal flintlock musket.


good luck

good luck