Indians For Guns

hello .
I was recently pointed to your forum as a possible place to find some information as to the markings on this muzzleloader I recently acquired.

Maybe someone here would be so kind as to relay to me information on these markings and possibly the manufacture , so I could add the information to my research catalogs .
Basically when they were accepted , used and their meanings .
IE viewers marking, proof markings or definitive proof
.
both breeches have what appears to be a Pottery on close inspection maybe a type of crown , with BP under it . then forwards of the breech is a wagon wheel with P under it . then the pot/crown again with BP under it , then a 16 inside a diamond followed by .662

both barrels are marked Not Nitro, 75 grain , 1 oz …..“ I realize this is the max BP charge and shot load

now the left barrel says ;manufactured by S.Insaf Alissons Jodhpur

the right barrel says I.O.F. TESTED . Nos.113 English Barrel

the locks are marked S.I.S JODHPUR and carry the 113 on the inside
Again all the parts including the stock , are marked with this 113.


If someone would like to fill me in on the possible quality of materials used for the barrels . I would like to read that for good or bad
Any and all information would greatly be appreciated
Thank you very much for your time

sorry , for the edit , i figured this would help

Welcome to IFG.Hope you like it here.

Is it possible for you to post a few photographs? We do have a couple of BP muzzle loader manufacturers from that part of the world.They should be able to throw some light on it.Thanks.

Best-
Vikram

sure here you go .

Is it possible that your "pot" or "crown" is what is called an Ashoka Lion?
Does it look like a simpler representation of the symbol below?
The Ashoka Lion is the National Emblem of India.


I.O.F would stand for Indian Ordnance Factory

I'm assuming that IOF would have proof marks similar to the British system. The British system uses a Crown with BP under it to denote black powder
The 16 inside the rhomboid is probably the gauge (used for shot gun barrels).
.663 (of an inch) is the inside diameter of a 16 gauge barrel. The weight of an unalloyed (pure) lead ball in 16 gauge is 1oz. Ball diameter.662?
So I would surmise that the gun was proofed with 75 grains of black powder and a 16 gauge ball.

All the above are educated guesses culled after googleing "proof marks" and "Indian Proof marks".

Thank you for the reply
Im thinking that some background on myself might be in order here .
I am a gunsmith with some 30 years of experience In traditional muzzleloaders
I build primarily muzzle loading rifles , smoothbores and SXS shotguns of the 18th century . Of English , French and American origins in both caplock and flintlock
Recently this piece came into my possession
The marking match nothing that I have documentation of . Either in location of those markings or of the markings themselves
Now a couple come close .
These would be the diamond with the 16 inside and the circle with spokes .

If the other markings would be crowns , then their locations would be very much the same as on early English or French manufacturing
What I have drawn in the scan for you all is what can clearly be seen on the top of the barrel .

The Ashoka Lion could be a possibility . But if so its very poorly detailed as the marking on the barrel is very clear .
The outline would be close and I guess the 3 radiating lines could signify a separation of the lions feet .
I would think though that a larger circle would have been used to define the forward facing lion ?
However again I don’t know so I must yield to the knowledge of folks here .
I have found its not uncommon for a marking to not resemble at all the intended design.
This is common in early French and English marks .
So yes you may be right as the outline would somewhat resemble the Ashoka Lion

Would anyone be so kind as to be able to post such a mark found on an item known to be produced in India ?
That way I could possibly do a better compression

Anyone have any idea to the manufacture ?

I really have no information on this piece at all . I find it very interesting . That added to my complete lack of manufacturing in India I find it rather fascinating as a new area of study

Captchee,

The wagon wheel could be a representation of the 'chakra'

113 would be the serial no.

1971 would be the year of manufacture.

IOF tested would mean that it has been subject to proof at one the Indian Ordnance Factories.

Re. the quality of the barrels,should be safe to fire if it has not been messed around with after coming back from the IOF.Some unscrupulous manufacturers turn the barrel after proof testing, to make it lighter.The proof testing is then only in name.

Tie to something when you fire it the first time.

You can try these people http://curioushouse.com/home.htm?

The owner is a member though he has not posted in some time.I think they also export their muzzle loaders.

thank you for the information
ill send a note to the folks at the web site you linked to
looking the barrels over , the do seem to be of much better quality then the work on the inside of the locks .
i see no evident signs that there was turning done after the proof marks were established

One thing I don’t like , that I don’t know if was done in manufacturing or someone has done after . The stock key thimble and lug have been welded to the barrel . Not very cleanly or professionally
If I find that these barrels are worth saving , I will of course remove that and do a proper job re installing the part .
I will then , as always, test fire the barrels with a heavy load .

Again , thank you very much for the information , please if possible , keep it coming