Indians For Guns

Just a little story to show just how careful you have to be when buying a used gun.....and how even dealers can get it wrong sometimes !
Recently when `trawling` the web I came across a Darne - a French gun with a unique sliding action. The gun looked to be exceptional - it was described as being `very good` and certainly looked it. The details stated that the gun was a Halifax series ( the lowest three grades ) but it was obvious to me that the gun was either a `P` or a `V` series - the best guns that Darne produced - because of the shape of the action and the location of the safety. The gun was profusely engraved and the stock was of quite decent quality - Darnes` are notorious for fitting very basic wood to even their best grades of gun. The price wasn`t cheap but still a bargain as it would have been worth many times the amount on the American market.
During the course of a conversation with the vendor he insisted that the gun was a Halifax as the name was engraved on top of the opening lever ...... which set alarm bells ringing in my head. How could a top grade gun be marked as the lowest ?
So I made further enquiries elsewhere and discovered that after Darne ceased trading c.1950 their remaining stock of parts and actions were sold off to various concerns and guns were cobbled together from the various parts. I was also told that many of the guns were elaborately but crudely engraved by some form of machine process. A further conversation with the vendor confirmed this to be the case.
Needless to say, I didn`t buy the gun.
This vendor had honestly offered the gun and described it accurately. It was I who thought that I`d found a bargain.
The moral of this story is quite clear: When buying a gun make exhaustive enquiries and closely examine it. Sometimes things aren`t quite what they seem. Be particularly careful when buying over the internet or via advertisements in the press.

This is the actual gun. Looks superb doesn`t it ?
Thanks again for hosting the pictures Mehul.

Thanks for the instruction and your time,Grumpy.Thanks to you too Mehul for hosting the pics.

Best-
Vikram

Grumpy,

You know I am biased towards Darnes. Not quite Best guns, they are still very nice guns and the "greased lightning" description for their handling is very appropriate, I think. Sad that this particularl gun was a cobbled up piece on an old action. Had it been an original Darne, it would have been extremely valuable in the USA, I think.

Vikram,

Do try and shoot one of these guns if any of your shotgunning friends has a darne in his collection. The mechanism is an anachronism to the days of paper cased shotshells and the occasional problem with extracting them in damp weather, the guns are only boxlocks, but they handle so well because of the rigid barrel design that you have to have one in your hands to believe how good they are. In Britain they are not as highly sought after as they are in the USA, and, if you get a shotgun certificate, I guess you would be able to find one cheap to shoot and have some fun with.

Cheers!

Mehul

Very pretty looking gun! Can't say I have ever seen a similar mechanism on any shotgun, I take it this fixed barrel, movable action thing was built only by Darne?

mehulkamdar";p="4218 wrote: The mechanism is an anachronism to the days of paper cased shotshells and the occasional problem with extracting them in damp weather

Mehul,

We still mostly get paper cased catridges here (manufactured by IOFB KF)... They do make plastic shotshells as well, but those are not as commonly available.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

There was another French company that built guns with a Darne type action but they were probably using old stock from the Darne factory and there`s a gunmaker in France currently building very high grade guns using those same `remaindered` actions.
As Mehul says, Darne handling is legendary. The low profile action combined with excellent balance made for guns that handle like greased lightning. Typically French in many ways - quirky, original design that works.

Abhijeet,

There are some Darnes in India, mostly in the former French terrirories like Pondicherry, Mahe, Karaikal and Chandranagore. Also some Verney Carrons and other working French guns. If I remember right, one of the IFG members on the old Yahoogroups also has one.

It is a fairly simple mechanism to manufacture and I am sure that if one of India's present gunmakers wanted to build these guns, it would not be difficult. Grumpy knows vastly more about these and other guns than I ever will, and I shall ask him to correct me if I am wrong here, but the Darnes were never accepted as very high grade guns by the British because the mechanism does not allow selective extraction for fired shells. The Bruchet Darnes being made these days are also offered as double rifles, something that the old Darne company did not offer. I have a link to the website of their engraver somewhere and shall post it when I find it. They are typically French, as Grumpy says, eccentric and original.

Cheers!

Mehul

Yes, non-selective extraction is one of the reasons Darne never achieved major acceptance and another is that the limited space and horizontal barrels when opened doesn`t allow for very rapid reloading - not such a problem if you have a loader on driven birds but a pain in the butt if reloading yourself. The other problem, of course, is that Darne were French...........................

Yes I think it was the other hon gentleman from Patiala Harnihal/?Young Tiger? who has a Darne. If I recall correctly, the pair of shotgun was gifted to his grandfather and an American engineer. The latter gun came up for sale in US. He had a web link to this gun on sale.
regards

JOhn,
have I gone potty at 40 or did I really seea O/U darne about 30 years ago?
Were they ever made in O/U
Best
Axx

No, you`re not going potty Asif - there was a Darne O/U, the `S` series. I have a picture of one if you`re interested. Looked remarkably Italian.

Thanks for the faith John!
had me worried there.

Hey.....everyone.!

Yes we have a 16 ga darne action "charlin" in our family,although its not in very good condition now, I personally think its one of the best guns i ever shot.The action is smoothest ejection is perfect and the stock design is perfect (although it has been replaced) it kicks like a 28 ga. The 12ga partner of This particular gun was at sale with Lewis drake & co.Intrestingly this gun was even used for combat & self defence purposes(i know 16 ga is not a good option for that but those were the days ) when the gunfights were common in punjab over Land holding issues my dad was in his late teens then and this "charlin" was what he trusted the most.


With all due respect John you know alot more than me about guns i agree that non-selective extraction is a drawback but i think reloading darne is faster than a break open shotgun atleast thats the case with me
Look a this way you have to work on two diffrent parts on a breakopen shotgun "Top lever" and "barrels" ( unless a self opener) while in darne's action you just have o work on one part which is very smooth an quick in opening and closing angle of chambers isnt a problem with 12 or 16 ga size cartridges, oh yes a .410 shell can be a problem.


cheers!
Harnihal

It might be just me Harnihal - my right hand is pretty wrecked so I find reloading a Darne very fiddly. The time taken to reload also varies a little because the `P` and `V` models open in one movement whereas the Halifax and `R` models require two however I`m not the only one who has commented on the restricted access to the chambers - a lot depends on what you`re used to I guess.