Indians For Guns

4-5 years back, no one thought that we would get brand new pump action and semi auto shotguns. Second hand IOF pump action used to sell for 2.50 lacs.

Guys, Is semi auto shotgun with barrel length more than 20 inch PB or NPB?

ruger_rugged wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:38 pm

Guys, Is semi auto shotgun with barrel length more than 20 inch PB or NPB?

Before 2016, it was PB but in Arms Rules 2016, .22 semi auto rifle and 12 bore semi auto gun, both have been made NPB.

hi Vineet
Since you run an armory, any word on how the current crop of shotguns from Bhargav Arms are? Have you had a chance to handle this one? I saw a video tour of their factory and their stuff certainly seems up to snuff.

Vineet wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:58 am

ruger_rugged wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:38 pm

Guys, Is semi auto shotgun with barrel length more than 20 inch PB or NPB?

Before 2016, it was PB but in Arms Rules 2016, .22 semi auto rifle and 12 bore semi auto gun, both have been made NPB.

Thanks

Bhati and co are also launching semiauto shotgun under their New light art works brand.

Bishop wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:16 pm

Bhati and co are also launching semiauto shotgun under their New light art works brand.

Actually, Mr. Bhati's New Light Art Works have already launched their semi-auto shotgun:

partheus wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:11 pm

hi Vineet
Since you run an armory, any word on how the current crop of shotguns from Bhargav Arms are? Have you had a chance to handle this one? I saw a video tour of their factory and their stuff certainly seems up to snuff.

Here is a close-up video of the semi-auto SX100. As you said, definitely up to the mark for Indian standards:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CTfEp6eD ... _copy_link

dsen wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:03 pm

partheus wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:11 pm

hi Vineet
Since you run an armory, any word on how the current crop of shotguns from Bhargav Arms are? Have you had a chance to handle this one? I saw a video tour of their factory and their stuff certainly seems up to snuff.

Here is a close-up video of the semi-auto SX100. As you said, definitely up to the mark for Indian standards:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CTfEp6eD ... _copy_link

DSen
What in your opinion is the ‘mark’ for Indian standards?

When I said mark for Indian standards, I meant doesn't blow up, won't start falling apart after a few hundred rounds, has decent finishing, good quality materials (polymer for the pistol grip, rubber for the recoil pad, etc.), cycles a multitude of different brands of ammo without too many hiccups.

As you know, the benchmark of excellence is very low here and what is considered military surplus quality abroad, is the gold standard in India.

That is wrong on so many counts that I don't know where to begin.

dsen wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:32 pm

When I said mark for Indian standards, I meant doesn't blow up, won't start falling apart after a few hundred rounds, has decent finishing, good quality materials (polymer for the pistol grip, rubber for the recoil pad, etc.), cycles a multitude of different brands of ammo without too many hiccups.

As you know, the benchmark of excellence is very low here and what is considered military surplus quality abroad, is the gold standard in India.

You can't really be serious, just read what you wrote and think again about your decision to promote it.

pgupta wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:49 pm

dsen wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:32 pm

When I said mark for Indian standards, I meant doesn't blow up, won't start falling apart after a few hundred rounds, has decent finishing, good quality materials (polymer for the pistol grip, rubber for the recoil pad, etc.), cycles a multitude of different brands of ammo without too many hiccups.

As you know, the benchmark of excellence is very low here and what is considered military surplus quality abroad, is the gold standard in India.

You can't really be serious, just read what you wrote and think again about your decision to promote it.

Perhaps there was some miscommunication in my previous reply. What I am trying to say is that this shotgun gets the job done. We can't expect foreign standards at Indian prices (atleast for now, maybe 3-4 years later with more joint-ventures happening). I have received multiple videos from friends and followers continously shooting dozens of rounds through this semi-auto shotgun flawlessly, hence I will recommend it.

Also, I wasn't implying that this shotgun will start falling apart after a few thousand rounds, only time and long term user reviews will show just how durable it is. Most Indian buyers won't fire even a 1,000 rounds from their shotgun during time of ownership, hence I do think this semi-auto shotgun is a decent option as of now.

dsen wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:47 pm

We can't expect foreign standards at Indian prices (atleast for now, maybe 3-4 years later with more joint-ventures happening).

dsen, I must really question the validity of the information you share here on IFG.

A recent thread discussed the Bhargav semi-auto shotgun and mentioned a price of 1.67 lakh. (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28437&p=270888&hil ... av#p270864)

Or another thread mentioned the price of a new Ashani semi-auto pistol at ₹73,000 (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=26789&hilit=ashani ... 12#p258342)

I have just checked the prices of semi-auto shotguns at the store a couple of blocks from my house. For less than 1.67 lakh, I can buy either a Benelli ETHOS Cordoba BE.S.T. Black 12 Gauge 3in Semi Automatic Shotgun – 30in or a Beretta A400 Xcel Sporting Black Edition KO Black 12 Gauge 3in Semi Automatic Shotgun - 28in

For the price of this Ashani, there are many guns available in this price range. Here are a few for your consideration: Heckler & Koch VP9 Tactical 9mm Luger 4.7in Black Pistol - 17+1 Rounds, Sig Sauer 320XF RXP 9mm Luger 4.7in Black Pistol - 10+1 Rounds, Ruger SR1911 Standard 45 Auto (ACP) 5in Low Glare Stainless Pistol - 8+1 Rounds, and Beretta M9A4 9mm Luger Centurion Flat Dark Earth Pistol - 15+1 Rounds

Would you please explain to me how these guns of "foreign standards" have the same price as the Bhargav or IOF products, when you imply that one must accept the lower quality of Indian guns because they cost less?

You have also asserted this point:

When I said mark for Indian standards, I meant doesn't blow up, won't start falling apart after a few hundred rounds, has decent finishing, good quality materials (polymer for the pistol grip, rubber for the recoil pad, etc.), cycles a multitude of different brands of ammo without too many hiccups.

As you know, the benchmark of excellence is very low here and what is considered military surplus quality abroad, is the gold standard in India.

here (viewtopic.php?p=271832#p271823)

I own an RFI 2A rifle, and unlike what you have said here, when you consider "military surplus quality" as less than adequate or questionable, I must object. i own, or have owned, military surplus rifles of Russia/Soviet Union and Finland (Mosin Nagant), France (Berthier), Sweden (M94), USA ('03 Springfield and Krag), China (Norinco SKS and AK, and Norinco "Star"), Czech (CZ-52 and CZ-70), the UK (Martini Henry), Poland (Radom wz29), and Switzerland (M1889) -- at least, this is what comes to my mind at the moment.

NONE of these guns have blown up, NONE have started falling apart after a few hundred rounds, ALL decent finishing, and ALL are built of good quality materials. Furthermore, ALL feed and operate correctly and have a reasonable degree of accuracy.

I realize that I may not have the breadth and depth of firearms knowledge that you posses, but I will hazard to offer, with great trepidation, these challenges to your vast reservoir of expertise that you've offered here.

Let me also mention that the RFI 2A, which was built at the Ishapore Arsenal on SMLE No. 1 Mk III* tooling, is an improvement over the original British weapon, in that it can reliably accept NATO 7.62x51mm ammunition, which the original SMLE could not. My understanding is that the engineers at Ishapore used a superior metallurgy than used by the British, enabling the design to accept a higher power cartridge. The RFI 2A in no way takes a back seat to any of the other rifles in fit and finish, in my experience, except for the Swiss 1889, but in that matter, none of the other rifles come up to Swiss standards, either.

Your ideas of the quality of military surplus are incorrect.

Your implication that India and Indians must accept a lower quality firearm with regard to capability, innovation, or fit and finish are, quite frankly rubbish and unacceptable!

On this forum, most of us don't know each other, and we must judge each other's reputations and knowledge by what we all post. Frankly, in my view, what you post here on IFG falls well below the mark of being useful or informative.

I recognize that this post may come across as abrasive, but I would respectfully offer than you would be better served by keeping your typing fingers much less busy and your reading skills much busier. You may find that you learn a few things.