Indians For Guns

Another questions for Real Guru's here..

In another thread.. Sanjay was talking about Hammer shotguns? What is the technical difference apart from exposed hammers and Pro and cons please...

Thanks in Advance...

-Inder

a wise man i know of says time and again ---- "a double barrel without external hammers is like a dog without ears"

main advantage of external hammers is that you can visibily see if the hammer is cocked... other than the looks ofcourse.

diskaon";p="26442 wrote:a wise man i know of says time and again ---- "a double barrel without external hammers is like a dog without ears"

main advantage of external hammers is that you can visibily see if the hammer is cocked... other than the looks ofcourse.

You also would not have to dry fire the gun every time you open and close the breech for whatever reason

The mechanism is different. Safety guns with modern lock and action is a later development and better technology.

There is a long history of developmet.
Muzzle Loader
Precussion cap type breech loader
Pin fire gun
Hammer cocking gun
now the Modern shotgun

Disadvantage - Mechanism not easy to master for it to be user servicible.

In remote areas and harsh conditions, even today maybe someone would prefer a hammer gun.

Neccesity - In German / Austrian combinations where usually 1 x Centrefire, I x SHotgun and 1 x 22 LR or 22 Hornet is used, the hammer is for 2 barrels only, for the 3 rd a safety catch is required.

But in todays world Hammerless is always preferred.

Personal experience - Cocked the left hammer and the spring broke, the gun fired. The Geese still 80 yards away flew off and my shooting friends wanted to drown me in the river ( THis happened outside India ). Fortunately no one got hurt. THree of us were lying on our bellies broadside on a small boat closing in on a group of Geese rosting on a little island in the river.

Usually I stay away from Hammer cockers but this was a special 12 Bore shotgun with 36 inch barrels, 3 inch chambers S/S with both barrels full chocked to .710, I was firing Eley Alphamax 3 inch cartridge ( N0. 3 ) hence was forced to use this gun.

Heard - Two of my relatives were walking near a marsh land.

The one behing was carrying a hammer gun. loaded but hammer uncocked.

He slipped, hammer caught in his Kurta pocket and fired. Fortunately the charge of shots fell in the mud and not ahead where his elder brother was walking.

Dangerous when cocked and people tend to uncock it by thumb pressure and gently releasing the hammer spring. Many slips and resultant accidental fire heard of.

They are avilable at a throwaway price too,no someone who sold his a few months ago for 8 K.

"Neccesity - In German / Austrian combinations where usually 1 x Centrefire, I x SHotgun and 1 x 22 LR or 22 Hornet is used, the safety catch is for 2 barrels only, for the 3 rd a hammer is required. "

I`ve never seen a drilling with two hammerless barrels and one hammer barrel.

Hammer guns are enjoying something of a revival - especially in the USA.

There are self-cocking hammer guns - Abbiatico & Salvinelli ( amongst others )make one........and they have a safety.

A good Purdey hammer gun can easily cost £8,000. Not bad for guns well over a hundred years old.

You can de-cock a hammer gun - you can`t decock a hammerless gun.

Most hammer guns - the vast majority - have to be manually cocked.

You can easily tell if a hammer gun is cocked - this, more than anything else, was the main objection to hammerless guns and the reason that hammer guns were built right up to the onset of WWII.

The sight picture when one barrel has been fired can be a little peculiar with a hammer gun - they look unbalanced to some.

A good hammer gun can still be used very effectively on game or for rough shooting. The lock time on a hammer gun is indistinguishable from a hammerless gun. You could even use one for clays if you wanted - I have an 1870s Live Pigeon gun - a Trap gun in other words - with a wide, flat rib.

Earlier hammer guns will have cylinder chokes and are probably best avoided but later ones will have most of the features and advantages of a hammerless gun. There`s nothing inherently `wrong` with a hammer gun so if you`re offered one in good condition at a good price don`t reject it just because of the external hammers.

There are a number of things you are yet to see. THe same would be applicable for me as well. Still learning and eager to learn more. If I get time I'll try to take the picture of such a drilling weapon from many catalouges I have here and post it. But not sure how soon, got to find time for doing it.

I have had the good opportunity to meet with a number of Rifle ( FIne rifle ) makers from Austria and Italy. Even dated one of them in Dubai when they come here for the annual hunting exhibition. THis girl Daniella runs her father's business now in Austria.

Not only rifles, but they even make some brilliant leather and Oak cases. Fanzoj Gesellschaft m. b. H.
of Ferlach School, Austria had offered me an O/U .375 H & H mag double rifle, with Sarvoski day scope and interchangable night reticle lit scope suitable for Leopards and other games in Africa. The idea was to import this into Zimbawe and keep it at Mike's concession.

Mike is the guy on whom WIlbur SMith has modelled his hero Shaun COurtney. THis concession is where Zimbawe borders Mozambique. Game is plentiful here.

THis brilliant rifle with Tiger and Sambhar engraving was offered to me at US $ 50,000 delivered to Mike in Harare. Delivery time was 2 years from order confirmation.

But the present political situation there has discouraged me from doing it.

But again I have said some drillings from German / Austrian makers have it. THere may be other methods too for 3 barreled weapons.

Might as well jump in with my 2 bits here... I actually learned shotgunning using a single barrel hammered gun (Indian make - Pioneer). This gun has a 30" barrel with a cylinder choke, as to it's effectiveness, both Asif and Mack The Knife have seen the gun in action and if you do your job, it does its job rather well...

Personally I think if one has a choice between a reasonably priced (nice) hammered gun in good nick and an expensive hammerless gun, I'd pick the former for most uses. They are usually bargains and one does not feel too bad about them getting knocked about in the field... which they invariably would, if actually put to use.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

True. Munger makers, particularly Giridhari Lal & Sons make some fairly good SIngle barrel guns, previously hammered but now Hammerless. I have used a lot of these Hammer guns myself, but now after tales oand some personal experience of all these accidents I feel unsafe about them.

This does not mean hammerless guns are 100 % safe. I have heard stories of them too firing when dropped on a hard floor, but instances of this kind of accidents are less.

I would rather go in for a 28 inch barell cheaper hammerless gun for everyday use, and preserve my fine english guns. A GEKo or Webley or similar would do.

shahid";p="26449 wrote: The one behing was carrying a hammer gun. loaded but hammer uncocked.

He slipped, hammer caught in his Kurta pocket and fired. Fortunately the charge of shots fell in the mud and not ahead where his elder brother was walking.

pardon me if i seem intrusive, but carrying a loaded shotgun around in this manner..........isn't it against the rules of safe gun handling?

Yes it is. It would be safer to break the barrels and remove the cartridges.

Here's a pic for Guru Grumpy. 2 Hammers and a safety.

Thanks for your input guys...

Atleast I know what to look for..

-Inder

Shahid you can be as sarcastic as you like but the gun shown is a conventional hammer drilling WITH TWO HAMMERS - NOT a gun with two hammerless barrels and a single hammer.
Try reading your own crap before attempting to be clever.

I personally think hammer guns look cool. There's footage online of some cowboy shooters who shoot hammer shotguns with quite good speed and remarkable technique.

Interesting co-incidence - since the topic of a triple barrel cropped up in this thread. Hopefully I'm not going way OT.

A gentleman turned in an interesting gun for a work over at the shop.

German made- I forgot to take note of the name

3 barreled, top two SxS 16ga, bottom barrel is rifled and unknown caliber (Owner has no Idea as well!)

Lovely gun, beautifully engraved with scenes of game on all metal surfaces.

The condition other than thin spots of rust on the surface with no pitting, is very good. The bores are in very good condition.

The gentleman can't seem to convincingly explain how he broke butt. He wanted the stock replaced and the gun re-blued. We decided not to re-blue such a fine gun, nor replace the beautiful stock. We plan to simply epoxy the broken pieces together since its not along any stress area. The stock also has a storage area for 4 shots, with a nicely engraved cover.

The right hammer functions as the hammer for the rifled bottom barrel. Pushing the button (on the tang) forward disengages the right hammer from the right pin assembly, flips up a leaf rear sight and engages the mechanism for the bottom barrel. Clever bit of the gun-makers art. I believe Shahid's triple barrel behaves similarly.


Here are some pics. Perhaps someone can help with more info on the gun and its unknown rifle bore.