Indians For Guns

own a bsa 12 bore side by side 30 inch barrels shotgun handed over by my father who in turn got it from his bro-in-law who in turn was handed over this firearm which belonged to his granddad .this grandad gentleman acquired this gun in 1901 when he had gone for Queen victorias coronation in the uk .so in effect the shotgun seems to be a 1901 vintage firearm . have used it extensively still good to shoot. how can one know of its vintage ie exact year of manufacture. wrote an email to bsa guns who never replied probably must have given them jitters to just trace out their old records if they still exist!

Andy,

Victoria sat on the throne in 1837.

You did not get an answer from BSA because they no longer provide this service.

If you provide the serial number, Grumpy may be able to help you with the year of manufacture.

Mack The Knife

The bsa shotgun registered number is 14740 i repeat 14740.will be exremely thankful if someone could locate the vintage!thanks.

Andy,

Are you sure that the gun was brought in by an individual?The reason why I ask is that if it was imported into the country by a dealer,then the you will have to check if there are not any more no.'s on the gun.Every importer was required to give the firearm imported by him,a unique no. and on some of the older guns,there are sometimes 2 no.'s ,one of the manufacturer and the other of the importer.

Also the no. alone would not help unless you provide other details.Proof marks,action and such.

penpusher

I have no idea of the vintage apart from the dates stamped on the action and, unless you post pictures here, cannot help you any further. If you want to research the gun, there is a source - register on www.internetgunclub.com and pay them the fee for a one week's membership and give them digital pictures of your gun with all the relevant information that you have. They would get you the history as they have the world's most extensive database of British guns and also access to the records of the Birmingham Proof House.

If you are looking for value, just remember that BSAs were low priced guns, not fine, high grade British sporters. The Ned Schwing guide which I use as a guideline lists two SxS shotgun models from BSA. The Classic which was a basic gun, is valued at $ 1300 in the US if found New in the Box. The slightly higher grade, optimistically called the "Royal" grade with a case hardened receiver is listed at $ 1500 NIB. There are no values listed for used guns, which means that a used gun in either grade would most probably not be worth anything in the USA or anywhere else outside India.

As Mack The Knife correctly points out, BSA no longer offer a dating service as they were acquired by Gamo some years ago and they probably had a headache from looking through their records for one of tens of thousands of cheap guns that they made and exported around the world. A BSA shotgun may be a good working gun if it is in good shape, so shoot and enjoy using the gun while you own it. If you're planning on selling it, you may get an OK price in India, but virtually nothing if you are thinking of exporting it.

Cheers!

Enclosing some photos of the bsa shotgun including the proof marks

some more photos of the 30 inch side by side barrels hammerless bsa shotgun

As Mehul knows I consider Schwing to be hopeless on European guns and as often as not his valuations - and de.scriptions - can be ignored. The standard finish on English guns was colour case hardening - coin finish or polished is VERY unusual on pre-1960s guns. The colour fades with use and eventually wears away. The odds of finding a literally as new BSA are virtually zero so that value can be ignored. The de.scriptions `Classic` and `Royal` are models that I`ve never heard of but the gun looks like a "De Luxe" model as far as I can tell. The photographs are pretty useless as the gun is too far away and the second set is non-existent.
BSAs were never top quality guns as Mehul says and the Greener type styles are both plain and ugly.....strong though. The De Luxe is rather better looking and has full coverage engraving and in good condition would be worth around £800 in the UK and about the same - c. $1,500 - in the US.
There are very few records pertaining to BSA available so dating would have to be done from the proof marks which can be rather vague for such purposes.
By the way, If it is a De Luxe it would date from quite some time after 1901.

Grumpy,

What would be a good valuation guide for European guns? I am trying to build up a guide as I can finally start buying the guns that I am interested in. All the past 20 years or more, I've only been collecting historical books.

I have heard that Bonhams and Butterfield published a guide of some kind some years ago but that they did not follow it up with a second edition. What would you recommend?

Cheers!

There isn`t one Mehul.......which is just as well as far as I`m concerned - the Schwing/Blue Book/Black Book just create an entirely artificial market in which cosmetic appearance is the be-all and end-all of gun value and hence responsible for so much re-blued, re-coloured, re-finished worn-out junk. They have a role in determining the values of post WWII American guns but as far as European guns - especially older ones - are concerned they are singularly useless.
Auction prices realised and the prices asked on websites such as Guntrader.co.uk are the best indicators of gun values.......but nothing like as convenient as a pocket guide of course.

Refiring this old thread...can anyone help