Indians For Guns

Hi All,
Wanted to know your preferences and views on what do you guys prefer shooting with in the field ? (so that there is no misunderstanding, it should be made clear that while hunting is illegal in India, but many of our members are overseas and many used to hunt in India when it was legal - it is in that context that this has been posted here)

Some die hard old school shot gunners swear the SxS is a better weapon to shoot with when it comes to any kind of pigeon/ duck /partridge /pheasant shooting.

However there is also an argument which seems logical that if over unders were not better why would all the competition shooting gets done by them.

So is it just nostalgia and old school theory or is there something to it??? [NRAVideo][/NRAVideo]

I am not an expert.But, I am told/read that even in that bastion of traditions,the English wing-shooting scene, O/Us dominate at the moment.That must tell us something.I,however,like to shoot with a SXS in the field.Yes,that is purely for nostalgia even though I am not any better with an O/U.

Best-
Vikram

ok, i will give this a shot (pun intended)

there is a lot of nostalgia involved here, but having said that it is also about your shooting style, weather you are shooting aimed (O/U) style or if you are good enough to used the advantage of instictive shooting (S/S).

Aimed shooting:
Standing on a peg(either at a driven shoot or clay shooting) you generally have a good indication from where the targets are coming from and have all the time in the world to aquire and follow through on that target, most people can learn this and get decent results, but when they are with the cocker spaniels in the scrup after woodcock, the speed needed is most likely lacking
this type of shooting is mostly a learned type of shooting, which means that it is all in your head, and your motor reflexes are controlled by your brain( concius trigger pull)

Instinctive shooting:
Peg shooting in close quarters(only getting short glimpses of your targets) or moving with your gun after the dogs in brush, the shooting lends itself more to instinctive shooting where your gun moves as part of your body and the first shot usually is shot as soon as the butt of the gun hits the shoulder, this takes practise and more than a bit of instruction from a instructor that knows how to teach as well (most instructors can be very good at pegs and know nothing about instinctive shooting and therefore denies its qualitys )
when mastred this tecnique can be transfered to your double rifle making you one of the fastest shots on the drive, and making it possible to actually get that leopard before it gets you

one of the reasons why most competitions are done with O/U are in my oppinion, that the O/U is the first gun most people get in their hand at the shooting range, because they are less expencive and a bit heavy as compared to the S/S game gun, so you can actually shoot a lot without getting hurt, and when people start out they cant afford a well balanced S/S so they actually learn the aimed tecnique, and it is a lot harder to go from that to instinctive shooting, so sadly most people never progress to the second level.

just my oppinion, and that is worth what you payed for it

best

peter

MMM so its is nostalgia to a great bit and it is safe to assume that u do aim better with a over under is that what u guys mean..??
AND YES I DO APOLOGIZE for not having clearly mentioned that this posts in no way implies to Indian scenario post hunting ban. It was addressed to our member who are or have been residents abroad and hunt in places where it is legal to do so or those who may have hunting experience in the past.

Moderators thank you and Apologies again...

no sir what i meant is that a O/U is a bit easyer to learn to use from the start, but sadly lacking when it comes to the fast and skilled shots

peter

During the "off" (ie non-bird hunting) season, I shoot sporting clays with a variety of (usually) 30" heavy 12g O/U target guns. But as bird season approaches, I switch to my 28" 20g. Browning BSS Sporter SxS. Recoil is negligible, given so few shots (got 7 quail yesterday out of 10 shots; should have been 10 quail), and it is fast and light. And a SxS just seems..right. My hunting partner shoots light O/Us (as do many), but he's not as stylish as myself.

Occasionally, I hunt pheasant on state land and they require non-"toxic" shot (steel), so I shoot a 16g. O/U for a bigger load, as steel is quite light, pheasants are tough and I don't own a 16g SxS.

Waterfowl hunting (not what I do) is a 12 g. game (non-toxic shot required), and most guys shoot 3" or 3 1/2" shells though gas-operated semi-autos for recoil absorption.

Many people believe that while the O/U may be the more precise weapon aganst a crossing target (especially a a clear orange one) in the open air, against a cluttered background and rising target, the SxS is more instinctive, a good one is better balanced and faster and the broader planes more forgiving.

peterdk wrote:no sir what i meant is that a O/U is a bit easyer to learn to use from the start, but sadly lacking when it comes to the fast and skilled shots

peter

Thanks peter... so now another question rises out of this topic... a buddy i was discussing this with says that an Over Under works well for a Rising Target say a bird out of the bush or a trap machine. On the other hand a SxS works and hits more times than an O/U for a sideways running / crossing target.

Regards
Rakshit.

Don't forget the weight. A SXS is much less tiring to carry, though by the same measure, the recoil is far more.

I too was under the impression too that SXS are suited for sideways targets and O/U for risers, till a good friend reminded me that live pigeon guns, which would work out as traditional "propah" trap guns, are all SXS with high ribs, designed for risers.

captrakshitsharma wrote:Thanks peter... so now another question rises out of this topic... a buddy i was discussing this with says that an Over Under works well for a Rising Target say a bird out of the bush or a trap machine. On the other hand a SxS works and hits more times than an O/U for a sideways running / crossing target.

Regards
Rakshit.

in skilled hands it really does not matter which gun you use for the clays or birds, let me explain...

when shooting instinctive shooting you look at your target, and shoulder the gun in a smooth move, shooting when the butt tuches the shoulder without taking your eye's from the target. your body allready knows how much you need to shoot in front of the bird/clay, so the trick is to cheat your brain so your body can do the work it does so well, i still struggle every now and then and suddenly i try to aim and then i surly throw the shot

It is a lot easyer for me to explain this with a cop of coffe in hand on the clay's range, so please forgive me for my shortcommings in writing.

best

peter

Captain , it is apt to the indian scene that we are 99 % used to sxs and we simply cant afford to do trap and skeet with the price of ammo in india . My old people (great veterans) who have been hunting during yesteryears ,simply cannot even handle a o/u. , they simply shun o/u when they meet in our rifle club. More of habit i think.But young skeet and trap shooters do vice versa they simply cannot hold and aim the sxs. may be habits and orientation play a keyrole for preference

This is merely a personal opinion, but:

a) The SxS is much lighter and when you are lugging something around for several hours a day, one realises the import of every ounce of extra weight

b) The SxS usually comes to shoulder must faster

c) The single sighting plane and heavier weight (less recoil) of the O/U is much appreciated when shooting clays, when one can end up shooting a hundred or more rounds in each session. The O/U also seems to digests many more rounds before going "off the face"/ Shooting loose/ getting "play" in the action in "desi" parlance

d) IMHO the crazy prices quoted for O/U's as compared to SxS shotguns (in India) means that I would NEVER bother with the O/U's - as the cost is in multiples and any added benefits on the clays range are immediately negated by the added cost. I for one would rather spend the saved money on more ammunition and shoot more!

e) Last but not the least (for many of us) - SxS simply looks a helluva lot "sexier" than the O/U! There is something about a beautifully made SxS shotgun that (IMO) no other type of gun can really surpass... call it nostalgia if you like, I like to look upon at it as good taste

Cheers!
Abhijeet

I think it has a lot to do with what the hunter is comfortable with. There is this retd Brig. I know who was a fantastic hunter in his times and has some rare trophies to his credit including the Chiru, Hangul and Serao. He was once posted to Laos and was invited for a trap shooting competition amongst the fauji officers(from different nations) stationed there. Our man had never picked up an O/U before and decided to take part with the only SXS available . After a few practice shots he was ready for the game. Interestingly he won the first prize. He felt trap shooting was easier. With the clays you had a fair bit of idea where it would go. Less predictable with a game bird .Not to mention the difference in terrain while shooting different species of game birds .

I think SXS advocate.

The increased depth of barrels in O/U prevents on from tilting the plane while taking aim,which is most common cause of bad aiming that is why begginers find it easier to aim with O/U.

When it comes to looks O/U can never replace elegance and charm of SXS's

While I am not sure what is available in India, I do think all references to the greater lightness of the SxS are no longer valid. There are now a great many alloy-actioned O/Us which reduce the weight of the gun without affecting balance. It started with the Berreta Ultralight (titanium at bearing/wear points in the action), but there is the Browning Feather, the Guerini Light line..quite a few more.

These are not of course at their best as target guns, but neither is a light SxS. Some O/Us are of course quite attractive. See below 6# 5 ounce case-colored Guerini Magnus of mine (steel-framed). 20g. 28". It would be a great upland hunting gun if I could stand to have it in the brush. My 28" 20g. SxS hunting gun (which is actually a pretty nice one), is heavier by nearly half a pound, not as spiffy (and less expensive), but I don't worry about hurting it. Well, not much, anyway.

Steve

Thats a great gun a Caesars are getting expensive ..few members here have handled them and they are great...

My theory about sxs vs O/U as some one said - if O/U was the preferred manner God would have made our eyes in that manner for sxs it is ..BTW I own O/U Beretta Shotty

Cheers