Indians For Guns

Hi everyone ,

I am sorry for not being in touch with the forum for long as i was busy with some stuff . But from now will try to keep pace with the Forum .

In India I strongly feel that demand for 12 bore U/o Shotgun of good quality will increase . But we dont see good quality U/o made in our country . Now i have started working on making a U/o gun as per shooters needs but there are many problems that a manufacturer faces in making a good quality and accurate U/o gun and these problems i will like to share with you guys here . I will also share my design for new shotguns both U/o and side by side on autocad format here . So few steps i am planning to make some improvements in this industry :-

1. For making a good product one needs a good machine . However our Industry still works on tradition lathes and Milling machine . So by this the final Product that comes out is not always the same as per design . I am planning to add additional machinery but advanced . For drilling process i have ordered a Gun drill machine which is hydraulic and works on servo motor and a honing machine to give the inner polish . These two machines will help me to design a perfecr barell . Now i am also looking for a CNC turning centre but due to huge length nd small diameter i am not getting any success in that . Suggestions for the same are welcome . And a CNC milling centre to make a perfect body as per design . I havent booked it yet but have taken quotations from some good companies .
2. Making a standard design :- Every Gun manufacturer has its own design . Since the assembly nd fitting part is mostly done by hand so the end product is not the same . I have made my designs of guns with help of a autocad designer. By introduction of CNC machines i can make fixtures through that design , cast different parts using investment casting and reduce hand work . This will in end lead me to interchangibility . But since most of the guns in India are manufactured in jammu and munger so both of them are very backward in terms of facility available for Manufacturing . Would like to recive suggestions from designers .

There is a lot to be discussed and just wish me luck i come up with something good for you soon . And yes my site is working but not complete yet . Will try to complete it soon

Varun Bhargav
C/o Bhargav Arms Co

-- Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:48 am --

Ok guys here is the fst thing . This is the body of the U/o gun i am designing . I have given it for casting . Suggestions are welcome from your end.

that is really some good news about the design venture, Best of luck!!! you have the good wishes of a lot of us.
Thomas

Varun

Good luck with the effort wishing you the best..Its easy for us to comment but instead of reinventing the wheel or designing parts etc wouldnt it be easy securing a tie up with a foreign manufacturer? Such as the Turkish folks especially since a good shotty commands a very decent price and add a captive market. Again what do I know about rules and other red tape.

Best

Hi varun,

Looks to be fairly closely based on on the Heym O/U receiver.

Indian manufacturers should not shy away from securing licensed usage of patented features and mechanisms. It will save on a lot of needless R&D. I'm sure the exercise will not add too hefty an overhead to the end product. In the process the end product may end up being not within the price bracket of the regular aam admi. But hey, you'll have to choose your market - the traditional 'anything as long as it shoots in the direction you point and is cheap' OR slightly more distinguishing customer who knows what he /he wants. Quite simply Indian manufacturers are sitting on a gold mine with the import ban.

Proven things like single triggers with inertia interrupter and monoblocs would be nice.

Of course for anything worthwhile you'll need to use good and I mean good (not adequate quality) steel, particularly the barrels.

If you don't mind tinkering with stuff, you could, in a pinch, convert most conventional lathes and mills with CNC kits. It'll prove to be a whole lot less expensive...as long as the host machine is still accurate or is new.

Heym CNC's a receiver for very similar design from solid billet. Sure Investment casting has its valid virtues but my preference is machined billets or forgings... sorry I'm old fashioned...

Good effort nevertheless bro. Keep it up and I'll buy from you...

Regards,
cc

Hello Varun ,first of all congratulations on having a go, setting up a production facility from scratch is a daunting task , it takes a lot of money.
CNC's are the way to go if you have the people who can set it up and run it ,that is an art in itself. I assume you have access to good quality materials and heat treating facilities. The firearms industry has always used contractors and out workers the fabricate the various parts that go to make up a firearm, it's only the state run factories that have the capacity to do everything in-house ,jobs like hard chrome lining the barrels and heat treating are best contracted out . The other aspect of shotgun manufacture is the stock work , to many guns are well enough made but the fit and finish of the timber lets them down , the Russian made guns are a prime example of this.

cheers
Pete

hi friend, so happy for you.i never thought anyone could do this in our country!!my best wishes in your endeavour.kindly keep us informed,and show us you final product.regards.dr.jk

Varun,

Looking at your interest in producing a fine o/u shotgun, and following your earlier leads on M/s Khairuddin(I hope I'm right about the manufacturer), I'm sure you'll be able to go ahead with your venture. However, producing an article for sale and actually selling are two diffent things. Placing the correct article with the correct price in the market will make your endeavour go farther. Please bear that in mind.

I myself am thinking about acquiring a shotgun, but in no circumstances am I going to pay ridiculous prices for used items and neither will I be able to purchase a new Indian one of decent quality. The idea for you would be to place your gun in between the two.

Good luck!

Katana

Hi

@ Katan :- Right now i am not concerned with the price . How to make the product cost affective is a later part . Right now i am in a research stage and my main aim is to make an U/o and side by side gun of international standards . I hope i get success in the same . If my product is not good i wont get a good price . If i overvalue it wont sell . So pricing is the last stage .
@ngerwal :- Yes you are right and I have tried for that also . I have asked companies for a JV or a techincal collabration but i guess a mail doesnt work for that . Coz no company will be willing to give its data to some other small company that also in some other part of the world specially where labour is so cheap . I just hope the new manufacturing ammendments are finalized and then after that we can see some advancements in the same . And yes i will definetly contact that turkish guy . I have tried talking thorugh mail to some turkish company but didnt got any reply.

So my major concern to start this post was to show my design ask for suggestions and invite all the shooters , Enggrs and cad designers to help me with the same . Coz any wrong machine and design will mean a dead investment for me which by no means can be recovered back . So i welcome all the suggestions and will post 2 new parts soon . Tell me about the body you can see on my last post . Does it look good enough and any further imporvements techinically any one can suggest . The body is cross bolt and also supports ejector barell

Your current design is ok...in fact very nice by Indian standards. May I suggest that you make the whole thing a little more curvy ... particularly topside.

Your locking system being of the double-Greener or Kersten type, the two slots along side the upper breech face will have to be slotted all the way through the top. Since the barrel/breech pivots and doesn't exactly slide forward the current slot arrangement will not allow your breech to close.

Good choice of locking system though. Strong, simple and balanced. The cross bolt and ears will have to be pretty hard wearing and well heat treated as this is the first point of wear.... Imagine how often an average Indian user will open and close the breech since lack of ammo gives one nothing better to do...

What kind of barrel/breech system are you planning? Monobloc would be my choice. It may allow you to save a bit on high quality metal.... i.e. The only the monobloc can of high grade steel and the rest of the barrel can be of standard or slightly better steel.

regards,
cc

Here is design of the Fore Hand . check this one and kindly comment

varun.bhargav wrote:Here is design of the Fore Hand . check this one and kindly comment

...Nice...looks like a cross between a Cz and a Merkel...

hi
great effort!!!
i am talking only from the perspective of looks: i feel that a longer action like that of the krieghoff looks nice and also the sidewalls of your receiver need to be a little higher am attaching a couple of pics for ref.

hi Varun Bhargav

your are a sight for a sore eyes, its good to know that some one has interest in producing soothing good for once. In India you will have a market for low end users and very high end users as well. do not get discouraged by set backs. remember not to lose your interest in producing something good.

glad to have you on the forum.

Varun,

Point taken. Great going!

katana

Varun,

I wish you the best.I have another suggestion looking at how you are planning to improve your product through automation,why not a pump action? Would be a lot simpler and cheaper to make and would not require skilled labour that even a O/U made on CNC machines would require.

As far as the design bit goes,why not reverse engineer? Or alternatively look for machinist drawings.Would make things a lot simpler and faster.