Which DBBL?

[mundaire]

A shotgun stock should fit you at least well enough to ensure that the gun mounts and points reasonably well (for you) - does not have to be a perfect fit, which usually requires a customised stock, just like a tailored suit.

As you would be well aware, you do not "aim" a shotgun you "point" it, therefore the dimensions of the stock in relation to your own size & shooting style (most obviously, things like body size, left or right handed, and left/ right eye domination) would go a long way in determining which gun suits you best. Of course I am assuming that the mechanicals of the guns under consideration are properly engineered.

The other thing you need to consider is barrel length and chokes of each barrel. As others have pointed out, this would be determined by what your end use for the gun is going to be.

For a normal field gun with fixed chokes, many people choose a more "open" choke for the first barrel and a slightly tighter one for the second barrel, logic being the first shot is taken at closer range so you would want the pattern to "open up" sooner, for the second shot you would want the pattern to "open up" further away.

By shooting birds I assume you mean crows? As those are the only birds you can legally shoot in India (as per current provisions of the Wildlife Protection Act 1972). Shooting any other species of bird would be a crime!

For self defence use, a shotgun is best used for short range close quarter work in home defence type scenarios. For such work I'd suggest both barrels have very open chokes or even no choke at all (cylinder).

Personally, the only Indian made double barrel shotgun I would consider buying is the IOF, but that is merely my view on the matter. Of course IOF haven't been making them for sometime now, so you will need to look for a used one in good nick, try http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=458 for info on how to evaluate a used shotty.

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[.32]

Thanks a lot Abhijeet for the hugely informative post.

Im 6ft. tall with reasonable built & right handed. Tried 22" to 28" barrel lengths, found that I could get used to all. Only concern with 28" was that while extended/pointing downwards, the barrel end touches the ground. So, restricted myself to 26".

The use/purpose of Choke & Cylinder is now clear in mind. So Cylinders are used in close range guns & tight chokes for long range.

In case Shotguns are just pointed in the direction, why not a hockey butt then? Could you give your point of view on small/pistol/hockey butt Guns!

I tried finding an IOF Gun but hard luck, found none.

Can I use a 22" barrel for long range shots?

[mundaire]

My own shotgun has 28 inch barrels, and I'm just half an inch under 6ft. - personally I've never faced the sort of problem you describe... not saying it is not so, just never faced the same issue myself - maybe you carry your gun differently...?

Just randomly pointing the shotgun in the general direction will ensure you will not be able to hit anything!

By pointing the gun, quite simply put I meant it should be correctly mounted with a good cheek weld on to the stock (not possible with the hockey style ones you seem fond of ) and your eye should be looking down the sighting plane. Now you should be able to hit what you are pointing at... Try it for yourself, shoot a few clays with a proper stance and then try doing the same with your cheek just an inch away from the stock.

Yep, you got it - chokes impact the "effective range" by controlling the spread of shot.

Sure, a 22" barrel with a full choke should be able to put 70% of the shot within a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. Do keep in mind though, it is not recommended to shoot most varieties of slugs through tightly choked barrels! So if you intend to use slugs at any point of time, you will need to get a shotgun with more open chokes. I mention this specifically as buckshot (LG, SG, SSG etc.) is currently banned in India and for a self defence scenario you may at some point wish to use slugs.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[.32]

About the barrel end touching the ground, I was talking of the scenario when the Gun is held before/after use in the downward direction(this is how a gun should be held). The Gun is held from where the butt begins & kept in a downwards position to impart safety. This might not be the norm but I prefer keeping the barrel facing the ground when not in use(held in hands).

Pointing a Gun with proper cheek weld & eye looking down on the sighting plane would be "Aiming"!

As I have never fired from a hockey butt, I was inquisitive whether while pointing in front of face, the recoil could hit back? Are there any hockey butt users on the board to answer this?

Being a noob, what are the different types of slugs(cartoos)? Firing some types through heavily choked barrels could burst open the barrel?

Not aware of Buckshot, LG, SG, etc!(noob-sorry)!

Also, do you advocate ejector Guns or the ones without?

Another confusion, what to choose between an over-under & side by side?

[mundaire]

Pointing a Gun with proper cheek weld & eye looking down on the sighting plane would be "Aiming"!

Not true...!

[hamiclar01]

Im 6ft. tall with reasonable built & right handed. Tried 22" to 28" barrel lengths, found that I could get used to all. Only concern with 28" was that while extended/pointing downwards, the barrel end touches the ground. So, restricted myself to 26".

Permit me to comment that the above is a funny reason for choosing a short barrel. When not firing, you should break the gun ALWAYS, and if arms down rest it on your shoes in front of the laces, or over your shoulder, or the crook of your arm

[TwoRivers]

.32: Smokeless powder in a shotgun is fully burned in less than 20", a longer barrel will not increase "range". People who tell you otherwise live in the black powder age. Even if a longer barrel would give 50 fps more, it would not translate into longer range, round shot is not very aerodynamic. A longer barrel has better "follow-through" for longer range shooting; a shorter barrel is quicker pointing and better for snap shots.
Can the barrel of a "hockey butt" hit your head when fired from the shoulder? That would depend on the strength of your wrist and arm, and how scared you are of your gun. Inexperienced shooters do that often enough with heavy caliber handguns. I am sure it can also be done with a "hockey butt".
If you could only try a "hockey butt" shotty for trap or skeet!, then this thread could come to a well deserved end. Cheers.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Do you think Im an idiot running a thread & returning to it every now & then!

It is nice to know that you are not.Though if you were,you would not be the first one.

Since you need one gun for all scenarios,might I suggest one with telescopic barrels.Push them down to 20" for easy carry and extend them to 28" or there about for trap.Finding one would take some doing but might be possible if you start searching for it immediately.

[.32]

@Hamiclar, not so if the Gun is intended for defense purposes. Pointing the Gun downwards is the safest bet. I would also not want to Gun to go off, rested on my foot!


@TwoRivers, barrel length funda is pretty much clear in my mind now.
Regarding recoil, lets see if Im able to try one.

Btw, Hockey butts won't have become so popular if they carried a major fault. People are choosing them, maybe the ones are not so enthusiastic about Guns but going around the market lays bare the current trends.
Maybe its Renaissance period & shorter ones replace the longer.


@Winnie, do you share the honors!

Since Barrel length issue has been solved i.e. length doesn't dictate range, I would choose a shorter iteration.

I hope the 22" barrels do not look odd with a conventional butt. In a sense do not give that cut short feel.

[hamiclar01]

@Hamiclar, not so if the Gun is intended for defense purposes. Pointing the Gun downwards is the safest bet. I would also not want to Gun to go off, rested on my foot!

Do you even know what I am talking about? The very fact that you can even contemplate this means you probabaly do not know how to carry a shotgun

Forget shopping for a gun at the moment. I SUGGEST YOU START BY REVISING GUN SAFETY FIRST, particularly the commandments related to shotgunning. Else, you are going to be a danger, not only to the attacker, but to yourself and everyone around you.

Come to think of it, you're not trolling here are you? (As if you'd own up if you did)

[.32]

Everybody has their own ways & means, a loaded Gun, can be pointed towards the ground.

D you consider yourself to be the master who knows all! Don't worry about the dangers, the pallets aren't gonna hit you!

If you consider this a Troll, why be a part of it!

Btw, Im not going to argue on the ways & types of carrying/using. The purpose of the thread is different.

[Sakobav]

.32

Lets see if I can explain why some members feel bit taken back by your posts. Most of us including myself had similar beginner questions when I was looking for a shotgun. The main criteria was shortlisted i.e. sxs vs o/u, budget, barrel condition, make and mechanics. Thing is when any one of us goes out to evaluate and purchase a gun members eager to know about the various guns evaluated , experience etc . Folks typically post pictures of the shotgun evaluated along with brief comments on pros and cons, in the end member purchases whatever suites them the best. But the posts detailing the experience become a valuable reference for other members. This board also stresses and imparts the key message of responsibility and safety of owning and handling the gun neither does this board allow any posts which can be misconstrued.
Your senseless lashing at a hamiclair who tried to clarify issues for you and even offered his shotty is ridiculous especially the comment

"D you consider yourself to be the master who knows all! Don't worry about the dangers, the pallets aren't gonna hit you!"

..Yes hamiclair is a senior member and if you want proper advise then be humble enough to accept it and expect to be ridiculed for posts suggesting to rest a fully loaded shotgun on a foot? This board doesnt suffer fools so be careful not to sound like one ..As hamiclair pointed Safety practice followed on a range and elsewhere is carrying the shotgun broken barrel period.
So make detailed reports of this krisco or pfizer guns you saw and be glad members are taking time to guide you and smack you to teach proper practice. Post some pictures and drive around to various cities to evaluate shotguns...now hockey butt is back again ..

[.32]

I agree, this board is a very helpful resource for information & neither did I dispute this. See my numerous posts for instance, I've categorically thanked & remained humble enough until I felt the thread is going OT or the matters out of the scope of this thread are discussed.

About the second portion of your post, Im unable to understand due to poor comprehension.

Generally loaded Guns are not pointed at anyone, why do you insist that I point it at my feet?!

I've visited ~ a dozen diff. dealers across my State & have seen various Guns. Have posted what ever I felt. Many members have helped in the course & I've expressed my gratitude towards them.

How would you feel if you were accused of troll when your intentions were true?

In the end I hope your post carried something informative rather than some OT talk which is helpful to none visiting the board you seem to be too concerned off.

Thanks to all who have helped & sorry to those who felt otherwise. My intention is just to get a good quality Gun for myself. If the mods/admin feel I've trolled or polluted the board, they should go ahead & close the thread.

Just for the record, I've been a member of this board for ~ 2 yrs & if if troll was to be my motive, I would done it much earlier(food for thought)!

This is the last OT reply I've maid.

[TwoRivers]

.32: The popularity of "hockey butts" is likely due to the fact, that the main use of a shotgun in India nowadays is for shooting into the air, at weddings, or to scare off burglars. And watching too many gangster movies. It is of no use otherwise, either for hunting or sport shooting. You won't see any one who uses a shotgun for its God given purpose go for a "hockey butt". But go for it, it's your choice and your money. Cheers

[dsingh]

regards to all
What surprises me the prices which r quoted very high I have seen rajput gun works sold for just 13k a very nice gun, girdhari lal and sons sold out for 14500 2 years back. My advice is to all members not to ever go for pistol or hockey butt it is very unsafe.Being a shoulder weapon it will be better that it should be with proper butt . I have heard pfizer have a good range . I have one one ejector gun of santhakoo of 1976 rarely have problems with ejectors it is the bad powder which jams the ejectors my other gun is of same make of santhkoo gun works but non ejector a economical and with good striking force it is litle heavier but lighter than tusker and modrenanother good guns most of the dealers misses is Pritam Singh and sons a heavy but a hardhitting gun I rejected it as it is heavier than other guns. One of the oldest gunmakers who won their case in hon"ble supre court in 1985 home department in Ranjit Singh vs union of India. tRADE NAME OF SANTHAKOO GUN WORKS IS EAGLE.If u gets the experience of firing from this gun u will forget the other types this is my experience.
regards