Feedback required: Winchester 1897 Pump Action Shotgun

[timmy]

One thing I would certainly check out:

If this Model '97 is a takedown model, you will want to see how worn out the takedown feature is. I have seen a number of '97s that are loose and can no longer be adjusted to be tightened up.

If this is a takedown model, you will note that the barrel is held to the receiver by interrupted threads. The barrel has two 90* sectors with threads that correspond to a similar arrangement in the receiver. Thus, turning the barrel - magazine assembly 90* will allow it to be pulled free from the receiver.

Takedown of Model '97

As this joint wore in use, a provision was made to take up looseness on the receiver. The interrupted threads in the receiver were not cut directly in the receiver metal, but into a bushing that fit into the receiver. This bushing could be rotated by loosening a screw that held down a saw-toothed part that engaged similar teeth on the rim of the bushing. By this means, the bushing could be turned a notch at a time to tighten up the joint between the barrel and receiver.

'97 parts illustration showing bushing (#3312) and saw-toothed adjustment part (#3897)

If this '97 is a takedown model, you will want to check this adjustment to see how much remains to be taken up. I have seen '97s where they are at the end of this adjustment and cannot have any more wear accommodated in the threads. Of course, as the bushing is turned in the receiver, less thread remains engaged with the corresponding barrel threads.

If this '97 is at the end of the adjustment range and the barrel is not secure in the receiver, you may want to think twice.

However, the '97 is, like most John M Browning designs, reliable and beautifully crafted to operate flawlessly for many years, and they also have a very satisfactory "feel" to their operation.

[TwoRivers]

If you do end up buying the M97, and I like it, have two of them, a solid frame and a take-down, be aware that it will keep firing if pumped while holding the trigger back. It does not have an interruptor like the more modern pump guns. That can be a good, or a bad feature. But you need to be aware of it; and it's probably a good feature in a self-defense situation. I well remember the time when I had a perfect triple of ducks, and after missing the first shot, pumped two more into the sky because my cold and frozen finger was still on the trigger. Cheers.

[amk]

Thanks Timmy, I got a chance to take another closer look at it. It is not a takedown model, it is fixed. It seems like it's a US Military version with the bayonet attachment points (no bayonet included), perforated heat shield above the barrel and lugs to attach the shoulder strap.

Thanks TwoRivers, I also read about the continuous firing when pumped with trigger on finger feature, sounds cool but scary; and there is no safety of any sort at all.

How does one check out the barrel/bore of a fixed model long gun? Tried from the breech end with the action open but could hardly see anything in there. I've got some pics I took of it on Saturday, will put them up here today.

AMK

[timmy]

amk, check from the muzzle end. Use either a small flashlight or, if you don't have one, something shiny like a knife blade to act as a reflector in the open breach. All you need to do is reflect some light (strong sunlight or a light bulb works well) up the barrel and look at it from the muzzle and you should be able to check the condition. Sometimes, I've even used a car key for this.

Often, in the USA, we would use a dime to check if the gun was full choked, as the dime is about .705" in diameter. As yours is a riot gun, it is not likely to have any choke, however.

There is nothing to fear about the lack of a disconnector. It is not needed. I suspect that it was added more as something to avoid lawsuits than anything else. You will not need a safety. Just leave the chamber empty until you are just about ready to fire. Then, you have the exposed hammer that will act as a safety at that point.

I am anxious to check out your pictures.

[TwoRivers]

Open the breech, put a piece of white paper or cardboard about an inch behind the chamber at a slight angle, and it will reflect enough light into the barrel so that you can get an idea of bore condition when looking into the barrel from the muzzle. A small flashlight works too. To put it on safe, you pull the hammer back slightly and hold, pull the trigger, and let the hammer go forward, while holding the trigger. With the small trigger of the M97 that can get tricky, so practice with an unloaded gun. Cheers.

[amk]

I did try looking into the barrel the way I would look into a pistol bore, took a small bore inspecting light through the breech and viewed from the muzzle. But the barrel is too long to make out anything. Maybe I need a powerful source of light or a strong reflection.

Here are some pics.

[penpusher]

Where is the bayonet?

[amk]

Don't know, there isn't one included.

[timmy]

Thanks for sharing -- I like it! It looks very nice!

[Mark]

AMK,

You should be able to see down the bore, maybe ask to run a cloth patch through the bore first. I mention this as the bore should be shiny and reflect much light.I usually do fine with the piece of paper or folded in half business card placed in the open breech. You can then place the gun on a table under a lamp and look through the muzzle.

Of interest to these guns is the heat shield on the barrel had 6 rows of holes until 1942 and then they went with 4 rows of holes. So this gun is pre-1942 it appears. If you can get the serial number of the gun I can see if I can lookup the manufacture date for you, but that is just a number and has little to do on the condition of the gun.

[The Doc]

amk,

Interesting pictures . It is a nicely "restored" piece. I doubt if the stock is original !! Bluing and polishing are evident.

best,

RP.

[amk]

Thanks Mark, I'll try and get the serial no. this week if possible.

Doc, yes it has been reblued. Don't now about the stock though. I expect an almost 100 yr old piece of metal to show some signs of refinishing

AMK

[koijam]

Hi ALl,
I am new to IFG.
Even I am looking to buy a Winchester Pump action Shot Gun. Can anyone guide me please.
If possible if u know any reliable Gun dealer in Pune and Mumbai. That would be of great help

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

The Winchester 97 has ONE action bar.

It was known to break and difficult to do a repair that would hold.

As I recall, it was best to REplace the action bar assembly.

Welding did not always work.

Very IMPORTANT that you check the action for any rework.

I would pass on the gun if shows sign of broken/repaired action bar.

Original 97 has a high value in the US because of Cowboy Action Shooting.

More now because Cowboy Action Shooting has added "Wild Bunch"

stage to their matches. '97 featured prominently in the movie.

Based on Sam Pekinpaugh movie, "The Wild Bunch".

Considered by American gun guys as a Must See. Lots of gun related Violence.

12 ga has a nasty recoil, especially when trigger is held back and rapid fired.

[TwoRivers]

Yes, the Winchester M97 has ONE action bar. As did all the other pump shotguns before the Remington M870. And they all gave good service, whatever other shortcomings they may have had.
The M97 served as a military shotgun in two world wars. Reliably. The three parts most likely to break are the ejector, the firing pin (because it so much fun dry firing a hamme gun!), and the extractor. As Tim has mentioned, the take-down adjustment can wear out, but it takes thousands of rounds and disassemblies to do that. My pal in the Yukon had a M97, purchased by his grandfather in the Maritimes, passed to his father who moved to the Yukon, and then passed to Grant. All ardent hunters, and the gun kept three families supplied with all kinds of birds over the years. It never needed any part replaced, but finally wore out the take-down adjustment.
My own "get wet and muddy" shotgun is an ex-police solid frame M97 that I replaced the barrel on, with a 26" modified choke barrel. I have more than once pounded the butt stock on the ground while gripping the gun by the forearm, because "Big Green" has problems controlling rim thickness. And it still works, and did'nt bend or break the action bar.