Indian made Under Over Guns for shooters .

[grewal]

Varun you effort has a potential of making a fortune for yourself. Just make sure that the product is distinct from the ones available in the market. Regarding high price , dont worry there are thousands of people who are ready to spend a hefty amount if you come up with a gun comparable to international standards. I will be more than happy to buy an U/O from you if you end up successful in your venture. And one thing more in case you cannot spend money to buy high end CNC machines, you can get your work done from various firms who do work for other on job bases. There are many firms present in Punjab who have world class machines and they do jobs for others.

[SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE]

All the very best to you Varun May you thrive in this noble endeavour Hope to see the final product soon



SAM

[sa_ali]

As far as the design bit goes,why not reverse engineer? Or alternatively look for machinist drawings.Would make things a lot simpler and faster.

You can use 3 d Scanners , get the best and practical of all, Now days the scanners combined with Good CNC machines will give you results with margins in few microns.
If you need help in getting in touch with people in dealing with 3d scanners, then i can help you in that.

[indigo_indo]

i think mr ali is right ; there are 3d printers available which can convert polyamide into 3 d model of each and every part u may need but the most important thing is to create a proper 3 d graphical representation as the image you have already shown . usually ppol have 3 to for cnc machines i have 5 kinds of different cnc machines and i have more than 10 years of experience in reverse engineering . The picture which mr Vishu from patiala has sent could be a dream of any enthusiast from mechanical line .

Making of such piece could be like making of a watch ; so much precise components and more over the interchangeability would be the key to success that may need proper burnishing as well as surface treatment of the components.

Since lot of people from this line are available in the field which can guide you properly how ever if u need to discuss some thing you are welcomed.

[sa_ali]

There you go, thats what i meant

[varun.bhargav]

@ sa_ali and Indigo_indo :- I agree with you that reverse enggr is a better approach . But the problem with that is i am not getting a good U/o cross bolt ejector Gun from the market on which i can do reverse enggr . I did enquired for 3d scanner and CMM but taking the stuff from jammu to some other loaction that also arms is a risky part . So fst i need a good U/o gun for that . Yes still if you have any contacts then plz refer them to me coz i might be requiring them in future . I have started this Thread to mainly discuss on the design part , get some help from some CAD designer if they are in forum , and to discuss relating to machine . So any suggestion relating machines and Design will be of great help to me .
@grewal :- I am interested in shifting to CNC machines only . The cost is not the issue labour is the issue now . Our industry has to finally shift to CNC if we want to keep our work going . The workers in a Arms company are mostly skilled and it takes more than 2 years for them to learn one single process in manufacturing . Not many are interested now to work in Arms Industry so in near future we wont be getting enough workers for our work

I will post the ejector and the chamber design soon

-- Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:23 pm --

@winniw :- Government doesnt allow us to manufacture pump action . When we will send it for proof test they will immediately reject that

[indigo_indo]

I can let u know the people who can provide u with the basic cad cam manpower as well as the basic job work they can also do for you since they are the specialized people and also my cnc gurus . the solution for your man power shortage is definitely the cnc culture and less dependability on skilled man power but as per your kinda job special purpose machine will suit u the most and a combination of cnc milling with proper in house heat treatment and burnishing euipment will be best investment you can make. i f i could be any help i will be obliged and honoured.

[varun.bhargav]

@indigo : anytime ... will be of gr8 help to me .. kindly mail me the details at [email protected]

[bandukbhandar]

Dear Varun

Can you just start providing written warranty on the arms already being manufactured by you.

Here, in my area lots of guns manufactured by Bhargava Arms Co., Jammu are lying for want of replacement of defective parts and in some cases the whole gun.

If the members of the forum are interested, I will list here, the defects found commonly in your make guns, of which you talk that are of very high quality.

Kezar Husen Bandukwala

[varun.bhargav]

Yes

I am planning to give written warranty on limited basis on my guns . As soon as my new design for side by side and U/o is complete i will do the same . I dont mind u discussing the defects i am having in my guns (I never mentioned it that the gun i make are of very high quality i cannot comment on that only my users can but i wish to make gun of international standards) but here the thread i have started is for discuusing my designs and getting some support for few technical members here . it will be better if u start a new thread for it and there we can discuss the same . And also we are three manufacturers under the same company The Bhargav Arms Co. The brand which i make comes under "DAVA" and "V.B.Greener" , "Baco" brand is taken care by my uncles with a different setup .... if you have any suggestions and diffects for "Baco" guns i will pass on the same to him . For me i can only comment and improve "DAVA' and "V.B.Greener" T/m guns .

[eljefe]

Thanks for the good news, Varun.
In case you are still interested in Turkish collaboration, why dont you contact their embassy in New Delhi, commercial section should be able to give you addresses and translation services.
Best

[peterdk]

varun

it sounds like a good project, just one question, do you have any training in regards to gunmaking and/or gun designing ?
it is not something you just pick up and play with, as you as a gunmaker hold other peoples life and health in your hands when you deliver a product to them.

the first picture is a good start, in my opinion it is either a bit square or to small to contain the forces.

dont start out by making the barrels as that is about the hardest part of the gun to get right, plenty of companys that makes and delivers barrels out there, buy them in instead.

plenty of designs out there where the patents have run out, but from reverse engineering to a functioning shotgun there is a LONG way, maybe you should start by asking a few euro makers if you can get in on a apprentice program, so you actually get a bit of expirence with this first.

Best regards

Peter

[Sakobav]

Thanks for the good news, Varun.
In case you are still interested in Turkish collaboration, why dont you contact their embassy in New Delhi, commercial section should be able to give you addresses and translation services.
Best

But go about doing the correct way also once you get into foreign tie ups its important to have some decent legal and financial folks around to guide. The latter can be expensive sometimes but many a times the foreign venture guys pitch in and play it straight. Turkey is aggressively looking east for business. Contact the embassy folks and they shall guide you. Simply drive down.

For now a decent autocad design with good CNC machining should do the trick or contact firms who do this kind of work can knock out the parts. Just have a good measuring and QC technique invest in such equipment. India is up there now with manufacturing technology and you dont have to cross Ludhiana for such work as members above have advised. The design and manufacturing processes will be provided by your foreign partner a learning curve you can avoid.

Again its easy for us to comment not knowing the other challenges you face but remember you have big captive market garner it before one of the big wigs does it.

Another such example is http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/ who started from scratch. Just look across the border and another company is Daud brothers
Good luck

http://www.birdnclay.com/
http://www.turkishsportarms.com/about.htm
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[cottage cheese]

varun

it sounds like a good project, just one question, do you have any training in regards to gunmaking and/or gun designing ?
it is not something you just pick up and play with, as you as a gunmaker hold other peoples life and health in your hands when you deliver a product to them.

the first picture is a good start, in my opinion it is either a bit square or to small to contain the forces.

dont start out by making the barrels as that is about the hardest part of the gun to get right, plenty of companys that makes and delivers barrels out there, buy them in instead.

plenty of designs out there where the patents have run out, but from reverse engineering to a functioning shotgun there is a LONG way, maybe you should start by asking a few euro makers if you can get in on a apprentice program, so you actually get a bit of expirence with this first.

Best regards

Peter

Hi Peter,

Varun is actually a manufacturer. His firm would be one of only 85 or so private gun manufacturers in India. Most have been producing rather sad products because of paranoid government restrictions on the trade. Designs have been limited by government restrictions to 12 Ga shotguns in single barrel break open, double barrel break open - mostly SxS but of late some firms in Kashmir have begun producing O&U's. Other types allowed (rather tolerated) by the government for manufacture are muzzle loaders in single and double barrels. Most private manufactures are very small scale and have very limited or conventional machinery (mostly hand working) and the quantity they can produce is also severely limited buy governmental control.

The fuss we're raking up about Varun is that he's trying to think out of the box and actually design and produce a good product, hopefully not pegging the price of his products to a 'socialist' market.

Your invaluable thoughts are very welcome! Do keep posting.

regards,
cc

[peterdk]

thank you CC

i have seen a few S/S from india, and yes you need a breath of fresh air, and i hope that varun can supply that, i am also aware of a few other projects brewing in your country at the moment, so exciting times are just around the corner.

the reason i might sound a bit off on this subject with reverse engineering is that i just went through it with J. rigby in london, and there is a lot more to the process than meets the eye and mind of those who have not done it before

i do appriciate varun's energy and ideas, what i am trying to say is that there is a lot more to designing and manufactoring a gun than meets the eye, especially on the safety side, steel quality and design strenght dont come without a price, neither does gunmaker expertice as it has taken a few of us quite a few years (or half lifetimes ) to get this right.

the only thing i allways worry about is safety, especially client safety, so this is not a put down but more a please be carefull

best regards

peter