Charles hellis and sons London

[singh_hp]

I am getting a 12 gauge Charles hellis and sons made in UK with 90% condition ,26 inch barrels ,self ejectors for 1lac ,is it worthed .Feedback will be very useful

[Kenny]

hi if u change ur mind not to get this gun then pls let me know i can get it

[The Doc]

Side-lock or a box-lock ?

Rp.

[Vikram]

Singh_hp,

Please read this exceptionally well written advice on buying used guns. Do not buy into all what the dealer says.It will save you a lot of grief especially as the gun could well be over a hundred years old. Get as much details as possible and post here and if possible with pictures.

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 58&start=0

Details(apart from mechanical and structural soundness)-sidelock or boxlock,hammerless or not, ejectors or extractors and mot importantly chamber length as many older guns have a 2"1/2 chambers against 2"3/4 standard.

Best-
Vikram

[singh_hp]

Thanks everybody for the feedback.Actually the thing is that gun is in good condition but i wanted to know is that is this a good known company like wesley richards,h & h ,bretta,Fn browning.And is it worth spending such asome on this comp. make

[Vikram]

Charles Hellis are a very well respected English gun makers.They are still operating or run by someone who owns the name.

http://www.hellis.com/history.html

But,without knowing the model,condition etc, of the gun,it is difficult to tell if it's worth a lakh.If it is a sidelock SXS in very good condition, I might go for it.But,I am not an authority and my understanding of present Indian market is very limited.

Best-
Vikram

P.S: You still need to ascertain the chamber length of the gun.

[singh_hp]

Thanks Vikram ,after studing many articles and viewing a couple of pics now i have a fair idea of diff in sidelock and box lock but dont know why people prefer sidelock cause boxlock has less moving parts and is considered more durable in field.Plz put some light on this topic.
TC

[Grumpy]

Sidelocks are more elegant because of their lower profile, are much easier to maintain/repair because of the easy access to the locks and require more effort to build. The only `weakness` in a sidelock is in the wrist of the stock because of the inletting of the locks. The oft-quoted remark that boxlocks are stronger than sidelocks is a load of cr*p - if that was the case why do the worlds best gunmakers use sidelock actions to build their hugely powerful Nitro Express rifles ?
The strongest action of all is generally reckoned to be a back-action sidelock although few are built nowadays.
Chas Hellis was reckoned to be a very good gunmaker but not in the top rank. The name has been revived but has no direct link with the original company. Chas Hellis boxlocks were invariably for them by Birmingham trade makers.

[Sakobav]

singh_hp

How did you gauge its 90% condition? I am just curiousbecause it will be informative to detail the criteria..I still believe if possible post pictures and let the members review it..Ignoring off course peanut gallery comments like mine

Good luck

Best

[Grumpy]

Now here`s a thought : If 100% of the barrel blue is missing from 10% of the barrels are they 90% original ?
If 10% of the wall thickness had disappeared I`d say the barrels were were likely 100% shagged.
I blame the `Blue Book` for all this percentage of condition rubbish.
If 100% of a guns blue is missing but it is otherwise mint the lack of blue is of no consequence.
Likewise if a totally worn-out gun has been completely refurbished it`ll will likely get a 100% condition rating but is still totally worn out.
The external condition - as regards amount of bluing and colour - is largelly irrelevent. What is important is the barrel wall thickness and the wear to the opening ( and closing ! ) ejector, safety and lock mechanisms.
Good point Navi.

[Sakobav]

Grumps

Once in a while do ask such questions..NRA also does that 90% condition stuff for their guns..

best

[Grumpy]

Yeah, I know Navi. The trouble is with these percentage condition ratings is that they are so arbitrary - one mans 90% is anothers 70%. The Blue Book ratings are supposed to follow strict criteria but they are rarely followed accurately.

[JT1983]

I would recommend finding a serial number for the gun and then emailing [email protected], he now owns the company and revived it in 1994. He still holds the records book so if you get a serial number he can check when the gun was made, the spec it was made to and this will give you a better idea of whether its been changed etc. One word of caution, the new guns made by Hellis are completely different to the ones previously made by Hellis, current guns are made completely by hand, whereas this was not always the case before....so a sidelock from Hellis in its new form will be worth considerably more than a lot of the previous sidelocks made by Hellis.

[upshooters]

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