Indians For Guns

http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/dec/11shoot.htm

its already very difficult to get license in northern states, don't know how authorities will react to this. Incidents like these give masala to anti's, I think the license holder should be taken to court for keeping his gun unattended.

-Inder

SO finally it has happenned. One thought it happenned only in the great US of A! One wonders if the boy or his father have ever fired that gadget for sport; probably a status symbol,like so many of their ilk on our side of the world. Lets have heart, after all, we are in INDIA- lots of uproar immediately, but very soon forgotten-thats probably what makes India tick!!! But SAD-no respect for guns.

I'll be surprised if the babucracy doesn't grasp this opportunity to punish people for wanting to own guns legitimately. Another step towards disarming the population.

Just wondering if there is a way to prevent imbeciles from owning firearms....also another to deal with the fancy/phony schools that thrive on the average Indians awe of the west and ape everything down to the accents. While not damning these institutions broadly, I've noticed quite a few of them want to force the molding of vulgarly spoiled and unprepared Indian youngsters in US of A standards in a nation and system thats almost totally out of sync.

I just cringe to hear what the brilliant right thinking babucracy will think up next.

It's not as simple as it seems, there's more to these things than what you read in sensational media reports... am really bushed now, but will have more to say tomorrow...

For now, my condolences to the family of the bereaved. I can only imagine their pain & suffering... wouldn't wish this on my enemies! I hope they are able to gather the strenght to get through this (very avoidable) tragedy...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

This is a very tragic news and may God provide strength and fortitude to the families to get through this.

may god bring peace to the family of the bereaved.......same thing happened a few months back in deccan college of engineering in hyderabad.the father gave his .32 revolver to his son as he has some issues in college and he shot his classmate to death.one more blow to firearms community.......

such incidents do not have chances of sparking an anti gun wave in mera bharat mahan because value of human life is dirt cheap in this country bcause of overpopulation etc and such incidents reflect upon personal gun ownership irresponsibility rather than bcause of avaialibilty of licenced firearms for which the process of acquisition is by the way is not very simple.

Its truly a bad incident......shouldn't have happened. Loss of deceased family is irrevocable. May god give them strength.....

Why don't we all step back for a moment, forget the sensational media reports AND also that the crime was committed using a gun... OK, ready?

FIRSTLY, and I have made this point often enough in the past, the fact is that a victim is equally dead/ injured irrespective of the method employed by criminals. Just a few months back there was an even more outrageous crime committed by school kids in the Jalna Distt. of Maharashtra. Please take the time to read the following reports on this sad incident:

The Times of India
Yahoo News
The Tribune
Indian Express

The point I am getting at is, access to a firearm DID NOT precipitate the crime! Our kids these days are far from innocent little boys and girls - the reasons for a child getting into crime could be many and are beyond the scope of this debate BUT the fact remains that once those chaps had decided to "do away" their classmate, they could have just as easily used a knife/ pillow/ rope/ rock/ club etc. to commit the crime. Be appalled at the crime - yes! Be appalled at the fact that the parents of those criminal teens allowed them access to their firearm at home - yes! But DO NOT for a moment think that just the fact that they had access to a gun precipitated the crime... a gun is merely a tool, it does not 'create' a motive where none existed before and as we all know, without a motive there is NO crime!

SECONDLY, ask yourselves - Are we safer if licensed, law-abiding and trained citizens are forcefully disarmed by the government? OF COURSE NOT!! Nothing is served by preventing law-abiding citizens from defending themselves, what is really required is a CLEAN, OBJECTIVE and TRANSPARENT system for issuing arms licenses. A process devoid of any bureaucratic whims & fancies...

A process that ensures that NO ONE with a criminal record or with a with mental illnesses can get access to an arms license, that such people would require a special clearance before they could get an arms license, that each applicant MUST have a SAFE place to store their firearms (this itself could have ensured that in the above mentioned case, it probably would not have been a gun that was used), that each and every applicant is made to go through a (locally, cheaply & easily available) gun safety and firearms competence course (with a test afterwards), that if an applicant has a clean record and if he/ she has passed the course he/ she WILL automatically be issued a firearms license UNLESS the authorities can SHOW JUST CAUSE as to the applicant being a potential threat to society!

And lets not be hasty in blaming schools... the blame in such cases almost always resides with parents that are almost never there for their kids... substituting expensive presents and money in stead of love and quality time with the family...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

HI! As far as school kids are concerned the most potent "weapon" they use is a motor vehicle - They clobber the max number of innocent bystanders and themselves with it - and what does the GOI do about it - Zilch nothing. In this particular case I would like to say that in such cases of regular fighting in schools the parents are equally at fault and all stories have two sides:

1. Assuming that the bully used to bash up these two since three months and the bullys parents never reigned him in and the bullied kids parents probably did not raise a hue and cry at school or at the home of the bully then what is the fault of the scared bullyied kids ? their survival instincts took over and they disposed off the threat in the most extreme manner keeping in view the bullies threats to kill them.

2. If the so called bullied victims are lying then the so called bully was the good guy and he got clobbered due to the sheer goondagardi of these two schemsters?

3. The inerrogation of the classmates of these dudes will bring out the truth and I strongly suspect a hidden "girlfriend" andle will also emerge. Max fights where physical assault takes place is due to the involvement of the fairer sex

4. What happed is a matter of speculation - Either a buddying bahubali got what he deserved or a new super smart bahubali has been created only time will tell. I think all the GOI policies that schools cannot fail anyone till class 8 , Students cannot shift from one school to another in the same city in class 9 & 10 within the CBSE board, The banning of all types of punishment and the option to lodge FIR against teachers will lead to total loss of whatever little control schools could exert on these spoilt brats and they will exploit the system fully. In the end it all boils down to nothing - Who cares? the Indian forget and carry on mentality will carry on and such cases will keep happening.....

May the Almighty rest him in peace and give the family the strength and fortitude to bear this, BUT who is to blame? A full grown man,nee ,father, who owns a weapon, has a son, and has not taught him the very basics; or like was just put across, a system that issues licenses without any kind of a 'test'(except links!) and a country that has such limited access to 'lessons' or clubs teaching gun etiquette.Whatever is still there is from the 'hand me down, or more diplomatically, 'pass it down'series when it comes to etiquette. Its like seeing a >10 lakh vehicle being driven minus all road rules and etiquettes! Do a whole lot of people who own weapons(and cars) even know the connotation of rules,regulations,sense and etiquette? My 2BTW!!!(and who in the world is to educate these *****!!!)

Sorry to join the debate late.Firstly, my condolences to all the families involved.Not an easy time for them.

I cannot add much to what has been said by Abhijeet.What has been galling is the media coverage of the entire issue. I understand the need to sell news and quite possibly with good faith in the righteousness of their coverage.But, I have been watching NDTV, I am a huge fan of them.But, this one wasn't covering the issue in the right light.

The issued licenses were said to have been tripled in the past years from a piddly little 60+ to 220+ in 2006.What a staggering raise! They were projecting the sales at a licensed gun shop as if guns are sold over the counter like Xmas cakes.

Now, the father of the student who killed claims that he never had a gun! Quite possibly, he kept an illegal firearm and the son might have taken it.So, let us not jump to random conclusions but try to inform the media of our concerns.Wringing hands is in vein.How about writing to NDTV and other TV channels, politely of course.

Best-
Vikram

Vikram";p="33132 wrote: Now, the father of the student who killed claims that he never had a gun! Quite possibly, he kept an illegal firearm and the son might have taken it.

I remember the article in TOI telling that the shots were fired from a licensed revolver.

Wonder how the licensing authorities will now react to issual of new licenses

Pran

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1071227/j ... 711295.jsp

The above is one of the most sensible articles I have read on this issue. The author focuses on the underlying causes of teen violence in stead of going the sensationalist route like so much of our media has done these past few weeks!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

it is always sad when kids are involved in any kind of harm. One must feel for the parents of whos kids are involved.

the fact is life was taken, with what is not the issue, as we all know that the instrument of death can be a MLAs car etc.

we as a shooting community should be reasonable and responsible in our thinking and outlook.

if we want to safe guard our sport and right to bear arms, then we need to take stock and have a voice to show our consern to the public and the govt.

it is easy to blag of on the forum. Not so easy to convince the media and the public that it is not guns that kill but unstable poeple.

nagarifle