Indians For Guns

Nice write up Vikram and great photos too.Liked the heap of shotty shells in particular

Have fun
Pran

Vikram";p="20545 wrote: Friends,
the pleasure of meeting a fellow shooter and discover a gentleman and a friend was great.

Vikram

Hi Vikram,

I couldn't agree more! SWMBO and i met Abhijeet and his family in London and were floored by the warmth of the reception. Both of us were quite charmed by Abhijeet , who is a perfect gentleman, and a very sensible one too. Plus, we got to gorge on the best set of Samosas on this side of the channel (Am i missing my weighing scales? not me!)

anand

Nice one guys have fun..any chance Abhijeet you are headed to this side of the pond?

Cheers

Thanks for the write-up, Vikram.

I am glad that the TX is shooting well.

Mack The Knife

Great pictures.... and writeup... !! Inspires me a lot.

Very nice pics and glad you had a nice time. Does look like a nice and sunny day too.

A couple of OT questions:

1. Do UK shotgun ranges allow lead shot to be used or are they stainless/bismuth/hevi-shot only?

2. Does the air rifle have a sliding butt plate like a match rifle or is it a very high comb on the stock? Interesting if it is a high comb - I haven't seen anything like that on a firearm

3. Vikram, your sideways facing position when you took your shot - is that how you normally shoot? Would be interesting to watch you shoot and we could get a few days when you come here as you have been planning for some time

Cheers!

"1. Do UK shotgun ranges allow lead shot to be used or are they stainless/bismuth/hevi-shot only? "

"Stainless" ? That`d be a novelty - so called `steel` shot is actually iron and definitely not stainless.

UK clay grounds allow the use of lead shot. The only restrictions on the cartridges used at clay shooting venues pertain to local issues - eg, a few clubs have noise disturbance problems so restrict cartridges to subsonic types and certain once a week/once a fortnight type clay shoots shot over agricutural land require the use of fibre wad cartridges only ( to prevent livestock from eating plastic shot cups. )

The air rifle stock design looks extreme but is actually quite sensible. The comb is very straight and very high to allow a head up position when using a scope. The butt necessarily has to be dropped to fit into the shoulder. The normal types don`t have a sliding butt plate. It`s a style that developed from three position small-bore rifle shooting rather than from centrefire rifles.

Vikrams shooting position isn`t too side on - he should have a lttle wider stance and should be pointing the forward foot though. You have to remember that he`s a bit of a porker ( but not as mich as me ! ) which does affect the stance.

Grumpy,

I am particularly intrigued by Vikram's sideways position because all of us here use the American style facing the traps with one foot forward depending on which direction the gun has to be swung through. With 13 out of 25 with a new gun the first time out, his style does seem to work, hence my curiosity. Nice shooting to say the least! I have heard about the British technique and read the Marchington books in the old days but in India my shotgunning was limited and I am not at all sure how the trap and skeet boys there shoot these days, though their successes have also been phenomenal for the restrictions that the country places on the sport. We couldn;t get to shoot together when you were here or I might have been exposed to this style earlier.

We did get a few hundred clays yesterday with Amit, his father, Inder and I shooting at a range in Plainfield yesterday and the pictures would be here as soon as the Memorial Day holiday ends, just to emphasise the difference.

I could see the 3p influence with the air rifle and that was why I even wondered if it had a sliding buttplate like on a match rifle. Again, something vastly different from what I am accustomed to these days though I did the match circuits in the late 70s and early 80s until I tired of it. Must be a good design for deliberate shooting but would be difficult for someone like me to get used to, old dog and all that.

I do find it very interesting that the US is going to the pre war Rigby styling in rifles including to iron sights only rifles these days while the UK is going completely in the other direction, modifying the Monte Carlo stock styles and even going to greater extremes than the Winslow "California School" designs of the 1970s. For amateur students of guns this is a very interesting set of trends to study. Not just intresting but actually fascinating to me though I shall most certainly never have a Monte Carlo stock in my gun safe for the reasons mentioned above.

Mehul, if you`re talking about the first and second pictures in the sequence at the clay ground that must be Abhijeet because it definitely isn`t Vikram and he IS very sideways on.

Your final comments applied to the Monte Carlo style of stock don`t really make much sense because I can`t see any negative .... - or otherwise comment - on them above. Monte Carlo stocks are detested in the USA but for no good reason. The `American` style stocks work well with a scope but are hopeless with iron sights and have no handling ability whatsoever. I like Monte Carlos because they offer a high comb to enable shooting with a scope but the cut away allows slightly superior handling to the American......and they look good. I can`t think of anyone that offers a Monte Carlo on a rifle nowadays. European gunmakers have inclined towards the modified Bavarian which has a much higher comb than the traditional style to enable shooting with a scope but rolled off to the rear to enable much faster handling than a Monte Carlo or, especially, the American.
An advantage that the American style has it that the high, straight comb best negates recoil. The other two aren`t far behind though. The drop comb British style designed for use with open Express type sights and fast handling is pretty brutal on the shoulder - as is the traditional Bavarian.
The air rifle stock shown is a form of extreme Monte Carlo and can be tolerated because of the total lack of recoil.
Trap and Skeet shotguns just about all have Monte Carlo stocks - with or without the comb cut.
My pet hate is rollover combs: Because I shoot off the left shoulder but with right handed guns a rollover comb is extremely uncomfortable ...... unusable in fact.

Grumpy,

We've had this discussion before - perhaps here itself?

I do think that the old pre war Rigby style stocks are superb with more drop than the modern American style and with no cheekpiece for fast shooting. Also they seem to push the barrels up in the air with recoil and that does seem to take the pressure off the shoulder a bit, though with the 30-06 class of cartridges that I shoot, recoil does not matter at all. I have shot the older Monte Carlo stocks and do not like them at all as they seem to have a rearward weight bias which makes them difficult (for me at least) to shoot off-hand faster.

Somehow, there must be anatomical reasons why some stock styles suit some people and not others - while you dislike the Enfields I find them superb to shoot and while you prefer Monte Carlos, vrtually no one among my friends over here as well as in Northern Europe does. As far as the Classical British stock style is concerned, I do think that many of the big bore shooters on the NE forums would be very surprised by your views as they seem to be slowly going to the older styles these days precisely because they feel that they feel more comfortable on the shoulder. There is also some merit to the idea that durring the pre war years, British nimrods shot more big bore rounds and at more game than at any time before or since in history and that the experience of the top British gunmakers settled on this design for a reason. I also think that the fact that few British shooters shoot the monster bores much these days contributes to this difference in tastes across the Atlantic.

In any case, this is, as I said, a fascinating subject for me to study.

And, on Vikram's style, I am referring to the picture entitled "Yours truly taking a shot." Certainly doesn't look like Abhijeet to me - even with my new reading glasses on...

You learn to pack the pounds very fast when you meet Abhijeet and yes the beer never runs out when he's around we like meeting him here too.

Dev

hamiclar01";p="20547 wrote:

Vikram";p="20545 wrote: Friends,
the pleasure of meeting a fellow shooter and discover a gentleman and a friend was great.

Vikram

Hi Vikram,

I couldn't agree more! SWMBO and i met Abhijeet and his family in London and were floored by the warmth of the reception. Both of us were quite charmed by Abhijeet , who is a perfect gentleman, and a very sensible one too. Plus, we got to gorge on the best set of Samosas on this side of the channel (Am i missing my weighing scales? not me!)

anand

dev";p="20608 wrote:You learn to pack the pounds very fast when you meet Abhijeet and yes the beer never runs out when he's around we like meeting him here too.

Dev

A little OT but relevant. For all the talk of beer, he is remarkably lean !

What a way to make to use of a day ! Glad that you had a nice time.

Thanks for the kind words every one.Much appreciated.

The HW97 and the TX200 both have higher combs as they are scope only shooters.

Mehul, that was good spotting. Guess I owe an explanation there re my stance.On that particular station both the birds rise on my right,one about 20 yards at 3'o clock direction and the second rises behind my right from 5'o clock direction towards 11'o clock.Knowing that I just stood a bit on to the right.Yes, that was my first ever proper clay shooting and I have little knowledge of the game.But, I am hooked to the sport.I think I like it.Abhijeet also was saying that sporting clays is much more action oriented and closer to field shooting.Can promise that you shall have your fun watching me shoot when I come over. Shall take some coaching before I seriously embark on the sport.

Guess the beer talk sounds as if he is a bit of a soaker.Far from it.Sujay, his trick is to eat very little.Just pecks at food.Moi?Look what Grumps said.Mummy....

Best-
Vikram

Vikram,

Thanks for the explanation. I would like to watch you shoot, though - a 13 out of 25 first time out with a new gun score is very good, indeed.

Yes, shotgunning is an addictive sport and there is no question that this is the king among the shooting sports because of the skill that it calls for from the shooter. I cannot think that anyone could avoid getting addicted to it.

ANyway, hope to see you here whenever you can come and let's get some shooting when you;re here.

Cheers!