Indians For Guns

Dear Friends,

After all this current happenings, where Goverment of India by its adament, idiotic attitude has tried to crush popular sentiments by using force, smear campagian, will ever listen or consider what we all people are trying to put across or convey?

Will this goverment ever try to take the masses along and try to understand the practical problems faced by the ordinary citizens?

Events during the current past have amply demonstrated that this goverment is hell bent on destroying the fabric this country is made of.

This Goverment preaches Parliamently practices to Anna Hazare and group but forgets the same conveniently when it comes to Arms Act.

Anna Hazare has aptly summed up in one sentence "Its just the skin of ruler which has changed". Earlier ruler had white skin, now its black, bloody ruler remains the same.'

Where is justice, Dogvijay is just a diversion, mouth piece of congress (indra) so that the loot can be carried on with impunity. This man has no sincerity towards our cause becoz if the true picture is told to massess atleast in north india, a big chunk of voters will shy aways from Congress (Indra) on this ground alone.

Cheers
Biren

UNLESS THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY , ARMS DEALER DON'T MAKE A REVOLT AGAINST THIS GOVERNMENT NOTHING CAN HAPPEN...

This Goverment preaches Parliamently practices to Anna Hazare and group but forgets the same conveniently when it comes to Arms Act.

Chudambram is the brain behind this subversion of Arms Act 1959.

Anna Hazare has aptly summed up in one sentence "Its just the skin of ruler which has changed". Earlier ruler had white skin, now its black, bloody ruler remains the same.'

Article 19(1)b of Constitution confirms beyond any reasonable doubt about what Anna Hazare said. It says:

to assemble peaceably and without arms;

Please apply your mind and analyze the meaning of the above article. Come on let us face the facts. Doesn't this article in Constitution say that people will have to assemble without arms so that their lives can be at mercy of government? Doesn't this article say that in order to make the government's job of attacking peaceably assembled people be made easiest by making them disarmed? American people can assemble peaceably with arms, American government or Constitution does not have problem with it. Why does Indian government or Constitution have problem?

Isn't this article 19(1)b the biggest trick and mischief with the people of India. How? Constitution is supposed to be the voice of people. In Article 19(1)b it says it cannot trust the people of India if they assemble with arms, just like dictators, colonial rulers, fascists cannot trust the people assembling with arms. In other words people of India are saying to themselves that they cannot trust themselves when they assemble with arms! What a height of absurdity that people of India accepted that too in their Constitution! Isn't it a fraud with people of India?

Another example is Article 311 wherein doctrine of pleasure has been given importance over the Constitution. President or Governor are creatures of Constitution but the public servants being appointed by these people are not practically answerable to the Constitution or the laws under it so long they have the "pleasure" of the appointing authorities(President or Governor). Therefore it is no surprise public servants act like Hitler and indulge in open corruption. Why Article 311 makes public servants not answerable to Constitution or law under it like any other citizens? Also I think our courts have not been following the principle of strict scrutiny in judicial review of laws.

Dear Goodboy,

Parliament makes law, executive implements it, Judiciary interprets it. If there is any ambiguity, then Judiciary can be petitioned to interpret it whether restricions imposed by Arms act are in consanance with constitution of India.

Function of Judiaciary is not to make law. In case of any ambiguity or doubt one can approch Judiciary for interpretation.

Rgds,
Biren

99% of the politicians in this country cant claim they are truthful,all the politicians directly or indirectly are involved in corrupt practices, how many of them carry a license themselves, moment they face chin music, immediately ways are made for them to skip !!! why ? Anna Hazare is definitely a thorn in the eyes of the politicians whom they are trying to eliminate.The government will pretend to hear but defy the promises later


Exposing the corrupt is our mission and we will do it

Biren wrote: After all this current happenings, where Goverment of India by its adament, idiotic attitude has tried to crush popular sentiments by using force, smear campagian, will ever listen or consider what we all people are trying to put across or convey?

Will this goverment ever try to take the masses along and try to understand the practical problems faced by the ordinary citizens?


This Goverment preaches Parliamently practices to Anna Hazare and group but forgets the same conveniently when it comes to Arms Act.

Please forgive me for putting this up and do not take me wrong. I am not against the cause.

If I take your question from the point of view of RKBA, which I do not know it was originally intended to be then how do we expect the Govt. to listen to something which we have not even tried to put across strongly in a unified manner apart from small individual efforts efforts now and then.

They are not used to listening and only get to know what you are trying to convey when you scream in their ears.

Individual efforts are usually directed towards getting individual licenses etc but not towards amending the system as a whole.

I am not pointing any fingers and I myself cannot claim that I have made some significant contributions in this direction.

But, looking at the current system, until something is done how can you expect them to hear you and take action.

all those anti corruption campings are a bit childish. You cant paint the whole country into pink color, it will not stay, nothing will remain after good monsoon. it is impossible to implement effective measures without taking in consideration of country's past practices, tradition and culture. industrialization and science transforming our life, but culture and traditions are same as in 17 century and its forming our response.

There is no way to stop corruption in India, if it is realistically so, then corruption must be legalized, and once some one go beyond of legal frame, he should be punished with maximum severity. Problem is that no one looking in this direction.

present government is the root cause for all evil.....

In my opinion, certainly air guns should be a part of Arms act, however i suggest keeping sports air guns away from the arms act. And y do i support arms act? it's coz increasing numbers of air gun attacks on people on street by jackass college/school students. This act will prevent that.

Please forgive me for putting this up and do not take me wrong. I am not against the cause.

If I take your question from the point of view of RKBA, which I do not know it was originally intended to be then how do we expect the Govt. to listen to something which we have not even tried to put across strongly in a unified manner apart from small individual efforts efforts now and then.

They are not used to listening and only get to know what you are trying to convey when you scream in their ears.

Individual efforts are usually directed towards getting individual licenses etc but not towards amending the system as a whole.

I am not pointing any fingers and I myself cannot claim that I have made some significant contributions in this direction.

But, looking at the current system, until something is done how can you expect them to hear you and take action.

Rajat,

Goverment before any amendment invites public opnion. In the given case no such publicity was given. It was efforts of some, this was brought to members notice and e-mails, representations were sent to Goverment. Representations where made before the parliamnetary committee. MPs led delegation to PM. The Goverment seems to have made up its mind before hand. It circumvented the procedure by issuing notice to state goverments.

Unified front you say.... NAGRI is in making... but how many of us have come forward and asked as to what can we do for the cause. Yes you are right we require united front. Educate people.

Weapons are mere tools like a cricket bat, this foolish gov should know utimately its the human who is behind.

Cheers
Biren

CanIndianHt wrote:In my opinion, certainly air guns should be a part of Arms act, however i suggest keeping sports air guns away from the arms act. And y do i support arms act? it's coz increasing numbers of air gun attacks on people on street by jackass college/school students. This act will prevent that.

No sir, you are absolutely wrong. If a person is going to commit a criminal act, he will do so regardless of whether there are laws in place prohibiting that act or not.
Banning everything in sight only affects law abiding citizens, not criminals. Law abiding citizens will obey laws, not criminals. What's next? Ban hammers, Pizza cutters, butter knives? You really think that by making new laws against these objects, criminals will say; "oh now there is a law against that, we will have to find some other object to use"? You will only deny law abiding citizens the opportunity to use these tools.

Besides that how will you differentiate between a regular airgun and a so called "sports" airgun? If I put a fancy stock on an airgun, does it now become a "sports" airgun?

There are already laws against murder, assault and battery. Does this stop criminals from committing those acts? A new act or law wont prevent anything, at least not where crime is concerned. Don't let the flawed logic of the anti's affect your thinking. You cannot legislate crime away.

If you think my arguments here are derogatory or simplistic, they are no more simplistic or insulting to my intelligence than telling me that a new law will fix the problem.

Biren wrote: Rajat,

Goverment before any amendment invites public opnion. In the given case no such publicity was given. It was efforts of some, this was brought to members notice and e-mails, representations were sent to Goverment. Representations where made before the parliamnetary committee. MPs led delegation to PM. The Goverment seems to have made up its mind before hand. It circumvented the procedure by issuing notice to state goverments.

Hello Biren!

Just keep in mind that what I am stating is not contrary to what you are pointing out.

And who elects the Govt? The first thing that comes to mind is We Do It. And who are we? members of this forum, other intelligent people who believe getting things put straight, people who have logic? NO it is the masses who outnumber us by a few hundred times and simply elect the Govt. on the basis of caste, creed, religion, region etc. without any logic or reasoning.

Why does the Govt. need to worry about inviting public opinion when they have their vote banks secured already. Ok at times there is a change: Party A comes in power and then party B and then its time for party A to be elected again and the SAME people more or less are back in power.

Do we have options as to whom we should vote for? NO in most cases the candidate is no better than his opponent.

What should we do? Exercise our right not to vote? Educate the masses? Contest an election? Frustrating isnt it?

Now I am doing the same that you are: Getting frustrated with the system.

Unified front you say.... NAGRI is in making... but how many of us have come forward and asked as to what can we do for the cause. Yes you are right we require united front. Educate people.

Even with the limited resources that we / nagri has there should be a beginning. Once it begins people will follow, this is the way it is. Or maybe they will not and we will know where we stand. At least there will be no ambiguity.

Weapons are mere tools like a cricket bat, this foolish gov should know utimately its the human who is behind.

Cheers
Biren

For most parts I agree with this.

But the good part is that at least we have some like minded people out there no matter how few.

xl_target wrote:

CanIndianHt wrote:In my opinion, certainly air guns should be a part of Arms act, however i suggest keeping sports air guns away from the arms act. And y do i support arms act? it's coz increasing numbers of air gun attacks on people on street by jackass college/school students. This act will prevent that.

No sir, you are absolutely wrong. If a person is going to commit a criminal act, he will do so regardless of whether there are laws in place prohibiting that act or not.
Banning everything in sight only affects law abiding citizens, not criminals. Law abiding citizens will obey laws, not criminals. What's next? Ban hammers, Pizza cutters, butter knives? You really think that by making new laws against these objects, criminals will say; "oh now there is a law against that, we will have to find some other object to use"? You will only deny law abiding citizens the opportunity to use these tools.

Besides that how will you differentiate between a regular airgun and a so called "sports" airgun? If I put a fancy stock on an airgun, does it now become a "sports" airgun?

There are already laws against murder, assault and battery. Does this stop criminals from committing those acts? A new act or law wont prevent anything, at least not where crime is concerned. Don't let the flawed logic of the anti's affect your thinking. You cannot legislate crime away.

If you think my arguments here are derogatory or simplistic, they are no more simplistic or insulting to my intelligence than telling me that a new law will fix the problem.

My response was in response to Arms Act India not US. This thread is all about arms act India not US. You are right that no one follow rules. However its different in India. Rules will at least keep students away form such their airgun pranks. In US there are gangs, teens are crazy drunk,racism, bad parenting, careless - people, government ,education, medical system and media. These all contributes to the fact no one follow rules. In India its different. Hence I still believe keep the arms act but keep sport guns away from it. "how will you differentiate between a regular airgun and a so called "sports" airgun?". Well students doing pranks on people do not buy "Made In Germany" guns or pallets, they buy cheap local ones. Also sport guns are not a common thing and whoever owns one certainly does not wish to use one for pranks than practice for Olympics and also sport ones cost a fortune in India. May be your views are correct for US but its opposite for India.

CanIndianHt wrote: My response was in response to Arms Act India not US. This thread is all about arms act India not US. You are right that no one follow rules. However its different in India. Rules will at least keep students away form such their airgun pranks. In US there are gangs, teens are crazy drunk,racism, bad parenting, careless - people, government ,education, medical system and media. These all contributes to the fact no one follow rules. In India its different. Hence I still believe keep the arms act but keep sport guns away from it. "how will you differentiate between a regular airgun and a so called "sports" airgun?". Well students doing pranks on people do not buy "Made In Germany" guns or pallets, they buy cheap local ones. Also sport guns are not a common thing and whoever owns one certainly does not wish to use one for pranks than practice for Olympics and also sport ones cost a fortune in India. May be your views are correct for US but its opposite for India.

Well, so you recommend that all local air gun manufacturers be banned because they are not of 'Sports' standard. That, my friend, will straight away kill the sport in India. That's because, as you have said 'sports guns' cost a fortune in India and only the privileged would be able to venture into the shooting sports. It is these local made cheap quality ones that most of the shooters in India start-over with. It helps them understand the sport, learn some basics, decide upon whether to pursue it seriously etc in a very low budget. After they are well versed with the basics they can get match-grade quality rifles later by importing(which again is a headache).

About the 'students doing pranks on people', it's all dependent on the mindset of these students alone. A rich spoiled brat can import a Walther or FWB or even a firearm just to play pranks. And this thread explains how the crooks can source guns and ammo at a very cheap rate. So the thing is the bad guys with different dosages of evil(from prank-playing students to gun-slinging mafia goons) will do what they want to do, irrespective of what the law says and It is the law-abiding innocent citizens who ultimately suffer. A I have already said the problem is with their mindsets and not with the laws!

Some effective means to avoid these air gun pranks is by teaching proper firearm handling rules, imbibing human values, supervised shooting practices etc.

What you say seems more like- Even a 5yr old kid who's serious about cricket will learn the sport only through an MRF high-quality-willow cricket bat but not some local made cheap one !

P.S: All the above comments have been made with reference to the state-of-affairs in India.

Dear XL_target,

Fully agree with you. There are enough laws in this country the problem is lack of enforcement and outdated laws.


It is similar to the story rocking our country now, many might not agree with me. The problem is lack of early education, instead of introducing effective early educative methods the govt wastes time with crazy laws. In the 8th para it mentions that top leaders put a break for effective measures.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 930401.cms

Regards,
drifter.