Indians For Guns

After using a lot many lights, and multiple battery types, I have reached a conclusion that "commonly available batteries", and lights in smaller format have the highest chance of being on you when required, and firing when needed. Having said that, I keep around AA lights, and AAA lights. Almost all AA lights have "house duty", with the AAA ones riding with me. Here is a shot done today of what remains with me now. Thought I'll share with you all.

From L to R: Arc-P AAA, Arc-Ti AAA, Muyshondt Mako, Peak LED Eiger in SS, lego of a Peak body and Arc head, Arc-UV AAA, Fenix E01 AAA and the legendary Maglite Solitaire.

Good that you've started this thread Amar, all these friednly discussions in the for sale forum have aroused my interest and curiosity in flashlights.

Have not seen or handled anything beyong maglites nefore so not sure, but the light output of the tiny AAA flashlight serves what purpose, I've seen the maglite solitaire at Basecamp and the light output is really low.

Secondly why are these fenix's etc priced several multiples of maglite flashlights, with knives it is better steels, finishes, materials. What is it with flashlights.

What is the warranty and after sales service available for fenix etc, what if the led needs replacement or some other repair work required ?

Thanks in advance.

P.S: Is that a Griptilian in your profile pic ?

Best
Moin.

Moin. wrote:Good that you've started this thread Amar, all these friednly discussions in the for sale forum have aroused my interest and curiosity in flashlights.

Have not seen or handled anything beyong maglites nefore so not sure, but the light output of the tiny AAA flashlight serves what purpose, I've seen the maglite solitaire at Basecamp and the light output is really low.

Well, yeah, the Solitaire puts about 2 lumens output, and drains the battery faster, since it uses an incan bulb. As compared, the new generation flashlights use the highly-efficient LED (light emitting diode), and hence you get better/brighter output and longer runtimes.

The revolution started around 2003, when Peter Gransee designed and sold the Arc AAA flashlight using the Nichia LED - these are the LEDs' that look like the ones used in the engineering and electronics labs, and are enclosed in a plastic enclosure. It used a single AAA light, and output about 7 lumens, and ran for 5 hrs straight, and then additional 5 for 50% output. This was far, far, far efficient than any flashlight of that time. Newer Nichia LEDs' output 10 lumens, and many flashlights including the Arc, Fenix E01, Mako, Peak LED Matterhorn, etc. use this LED. Compared to the barely 2 lumens, 10 lumens is very bright.

Secondly why are these fenix's etc priced several multiples of maglite flashlights, with knives it is better steels, finishes, materials. What is it with flashlights.

Newer LEDs (also known as "power LEDs") are far efficient and bright than the Nichia LEds' used in Fenix E01 and Arc AAA-P. For eg., a Cree XP-G LED can output about 90 lumens from a single AAA battery and give about an hour runtime. Compare these 90 against the 10 output by the Nichia LEDs. Flashlights also utilize microprocessors, and have heat sinks to take away the heat generated. LEDs' require no replacement, they don't fuse, and typical runtimes are ~100,000 hrs. advertised.

You answered it - better material, quality build, tight tolerances, and high efficiency. Most lights are designed using some aluminium alloy, with HAIII (hard anodized coating) for wear resistance, water-proofed, crush resistance, high runtimes, high efficiency, and so on. Exotic material like Titanium is used as well, including stainless steel.

The Fenix E01 (since you asked), uses HAIII coating on aluminium alloy, and is microprocessor based, giving 10 lumens for 10 hrs., and then 5 for another 11. So you get total 21 hrs. runtime of a single AAA battery. For normal usage, this runtime and efficieny means you have to change a battery once an year or so. The E01 also has aggressive knurling on its body for better grip, and is extremely robust - can withstand 10 floor fall, as well as being crushed under a truck, in addition to being completely water proof.

Now have a combination of better LEDs', smarter electronics, tough materials, smart designs, and the price goes north. The cheapest is the Fenix E01 for $15, while there are lights that cost as high as $250 US.

What is the warranty and after sales service available for fenix etc, what if the led needs replacement or some other repair work required ?

Almost nothing is required for these lights - the LED does not burnout, and has a life of 100,000 hrs., so requires no replacement, while the quality worksmanship means they are very nicely done. Even then, most of these lights are warranted typically for 3 to 10 to lifetime, and only shipping charges are to be borne.

Thanks in advance.

P.S: Is that a Griptilian in your profile pic ?

Best
Moin.

Yes, its the 551H2O Grip, rustproof. I have sold it, and have completely moved to using Spyderco, since I find it more ergonomic for my hands.

You're welcome. It is a pleasure sharing the knowledge.

-Amarendra

Thank you Amar, very informative. Do provide some good links for further reading. Prices here can very a lot, specially with knives, guns and ofcourse
Flashlights. How about posting some benchmark prices for AAA and AA flashlights that can be used as a reference. Are these prices fair and reasonable for Fenix

1. E01(Black,Olive) [1 X AAA] - Rs.1,100
2. E05(Black) [1X AAA ] - Rs.1,800
3. E21 (Black) [2 X AA ] - Rs.2,500
4. LD01 [1 X AAA] - Rs.3,300
5. LD 05 [2 X AAA] - Rs.3,300

6. LD10(Black) [1 X A A] - Rs.4,200
7. LD 15 (Black) [1 X A A] - Rs.3,500
8. LD20(Black) [2 X A A] - Rs.4,800
9. LD25(Black) [2 X A A] - Rs.4,000
10.LD40(black) [4 X A A] - Rs.5,000

11. PD30(Black) [2 X CR123A] - Rs.5,000
12. PD20(Black) [1 X CR123A] - Rs.4,500
13. PD10(Black) [1 X CR123A] - Rs.3,700
14. TK11 R2(Black) [1 X 18650 or 2 X CR123A] - Rs.5,300
15. TK 15 R5 (Black)[1 X 18650 or 2 X CR123A] - Rs.6,000

16. TK 35(Black) [4 X CR 123A] - Rs.8,000
17. TK40(Black) [8 X AA] - Rs.8,500
18. TK45(Black) [8 X AA] - Rs.9,500
19. TK50(Black) [2 Dcell]- Rs.6,500
20. TA20(Black) [1 X 18650 or 2 X CR123A] - Rs.6,500

21. HP 20 (Head Lamp) [4 X A A] - Rs.6,500
22. HP 10 (Head Lamp) [4 X A A] - Rs.7,500
23. MC 10 (Head Lamp)[1 X A A] - Rs.2,500
24. HL 20 (Head Lamp)[1 X A A

Thanks Moin.

Hey!! Its good to see you here in the general sections!

choombak wrote:
Well, yeah, the Solitaire puts about 2 lumens output, and drains the battery faster, since it uses an incan bulb. As compared, the new generation flashlights use the highly-efficient LED (light emitting diode), and hence you get better/brighter output and longer runtimes.

Newer LEDs (also known as "power LEDs") are far efficient and bright than the Nichia LEds' used in Fenix E01 and Arc AAA-P. For eg., a Cree XP-G LED can output about 90 lumens from a single AAA battery and give about an hour runtime. Compare these 90 against the 10 output by the Nichia LEDs. Flashlights also utilize microprocessors, and have heat sinks to take away the heat generated. LEDs' require no replacement, they don't fuse, and typical runtimes are ~100,000 hrs. advertised.

So you get total 21 hrs. runtime of a single AAA battery. For normal usage, this runtime and efficieny means you have to change a battery once an year or so. The E01 also has aggressive knurling on its body for better grip, and is extremely robust - can withstand 10 floor fall, as well as being crushed under a truck, in addition to being completely water proof.

Are you not going a bit overboard here? Fenix needs guys like you!

What is the warranty and after sales service available for fenix etc, what if the led needs replacement or some other repair work required ?

Almost nothing is required for these lights - the LED does not burnout, and has a life of 100,000 hrs., so requires no replacement, while the quality worksmanship means they are very nicely done. Even then, most of these lights are warranted typically for 3 to 10 to lifetime, and only shipping charges are to be borne.

Yes, he is right if anything goes wrong with these then you have to courier these back to the company or the seller as these are not repairable in India. The cost of the courier will have to be borne by you.

But the build quality is excellent.

-- Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:22 am --

Moin. wrote: Do provide some good links for further reading. Prices here can very a lot, specially with knives, guns and ofcourse
Flashlights. How about posting some benchmark prices for AAA and AA flashlights that can be used as a reference. Are these prices fair and reasonable for Fenix

Thanks Moin.

Go to www.candlepowerforums.com and you will not need to look anywhere else for information related to flashlights.

Secondly, regarding the prices: just lookup the prices of the flashlights at any online store like 4 sevens or optics planet etc. and check out the price, the price in India will be higher than that as you will have to add customs duty + shipping.

Or

Go to ebay.in and look for the "global easy buy" button and click it and buy flashlights or a lot of other stuff from there. Home delivery guaranteed or your money will be refunded or buy from seller cart2indiaonline and he will source your product from the U.S and deliver it or buy the Fenix lights from seller worldwide technologies, I think he is based in India.

Hope this will help.

Rajat wrote: ...
Are you not going a bit overboard here? Fenix needs guys like you!
...

Not really, the E01 does have fantastic reliability - for eg., see this thread where the light has been freezed, and this where it survives a drop of 5 floors. There was also a winter torture test on candlepowerforums, where the owner crushed the light under a truck in the snow repeatedly, and even then it worked! Sadly, this thread was lost a while ago when cpf site crashed.

Among all aluminium lights I've handled, in the smaller AAA format, the E01, Arc AAA and Peak Matterhorn are overall very robust, due to their simple electronics, and no lens in front. One reason why these, and similar lights are my goto lights in a critical situation.

-- Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:04 am --

Moin. wrote:Thank you Amar, very informative. Do provide some good links for further reading.

Rajat has indicated candlepowerforums - *the* definitive site for all your flashlight knowledge. Start at the LED Flashlights, and General Flashlight Discussion forums.

Once you know a flashlight, search google for "<<flashlight name>> review" which will turn up very good photo reviews of the light you are looking at. http://www.lygte-info.dk/review/Reviews%20UK.html is a fantastic site with a large number of flashlight reviews.

Prices here can very a lot, specially with knives, guns and ofcourse
Flashlights. How about posting some benchmark prices for AAA and AA flashlights that can be used as a reference. Are these prices fair and reasonable for Fenix

1. E01(Black,Olive) [1 X AAA] - Rs.1,100
2. E05(Black) [1X AAA ] - Rs.1,800
...
Thanks Moin.

If you purchase lights at US based sellers, then yes, they will be cheaper than these prices, but there are other risks involved - international shipping which if done via normal airmail is not reliable, customs duty - which is randomly applied based on the "looks" of the goods, and not the actual cost, and the time taken. In order to mitigate these, the only option is to pay for reliable shipping along with insurance, which is typically minimum $10 US. The waiting time is almost the same, unless if you get the light by FedEx or UPS or DHL, in which case it is about 3-5 days, and shipping is $35 minimum.

I have lost more than $100 gambling with the postal system, and since then never get a light without insurance and better shipping.

Factoring these, I believe these prices are reasonable, since you are guaranteed a light, and swiftly. Plus there is an additional advantage of "warranty returns" where you have to send it back to the local seller within India, and not to Fenix in China (I know this, since a JetBeam flashlight that I purchased in the US had to be sent to their China service center! It takes 3-4 weeks for Registered Shipping, and this wait is killing!).

Having said that, another way is to have the light shipped to a friend in the US who is traveling to India. This will be both reliable and cheaper. Or visit the WTS Flashlights & Parts section of cpfmp, where users list there flashlights for sale - it takes time and patience to build friendship here, but you can find someone who is willing to ship the light your way. Used lights, but in a good working condition sell for lower prices.

I recently ordered lights for a fellow IFG'ian, and we paid $20 shipping and $10 insurance for $150 lights. Now it is to be seen how much duty gets levied. But these lights are not available in India, so going international was the only option.

friend thats a neat collection,it will be hard to decide on anyone...........
i never understood the meaning of lumens...?

dr.jayakumar wrote:friend thats a neat collection,it will be hard to decide on anyone...........
i never understood the meaning of lumens...?

In simpler terms, lumens is the power of light perceived by the eye - how bright it looks. So 2 lumens is a lot dimmer than 20 and very very dimmer than 200. Your normal incandescent flashlight (eveready using 2 AA batteries, or 2 D batteries puts out approximately 20 lumens), while the modern LED based flashlights using the same batteries can put about 150, and require no LED change for the lifetime.

Nice army of 'lights' there, Choombak ! Thanks for sharing.... and ofcourse starting this thread !!

Hey Guys! Why not start a show your flashlight thread

There seem to be quite a few people who share the same interest.

Go to http://www.candlepowerforums.com and you will not need to look anywhere else for information related to flashlights.

Secondly, regarding the prices: just lookup the prices of the flashlights at any online store like 4 sevens or optics planet etc. and check out the price, the price in India will be higher than that as you will have to add customs duty + shipping.

Or

Go to ebay.in and look for the "global easy buy" button and click it and buy flashlights or a lot of other stuff from there. Home delivery guaranteed or your money will be refunded or buy from seller cart2indiaonline and he will source your product from the U.S and deliver it or buy the Fenix lights from seller worldwide technologies, I think he is based in India.

Hope this will help.[/quote]
_______________________________
This is indeed helpful Rajat. Thank you.

Regards
Moin.

-- Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:39 pm --

Rajat has indicated candlepowerforums - *the* definitive site for all your flashlight knowledge. Start at the LED Flashlights, and General Flashlight Discussion forums.

Once you know a flashlight, search google for "<<flashlight name>> review" which will turn up very good photo reviews of the light you are looking at. http://www.lygte-info.dk/review/Reviews%20UK.html is a fantastic site with a large number of flashlight reviews.

Prices here can very a lot, specially with knives, guns and ofcourse
Flashlights. How about posting some benchmark prices for AAA and AA flashlights that can be used as a reference. Are these prices fair and reasonable for Fenix

1. E01(Black,Olive) [1 X AAA] - Rs.1,100
2. E05(Black) [1X AAA ] - Rs.1,800
...
Thanks Moin.

If you purchase lights at US based sellers, then yes, they will be cheaper than these prices, but there are other risks involved - international shipping which if done via normal airmail is not reliable, customs duty - which is randomly applied based on the "looks" of the goods, and not the actual cost, and the time taken. In order to mitigate these, the only option is to pay for reliable shipping along with insurance, which is typically minimum $10 US. The waiting time is almost the same, unless if you get the light by FedEx or UPS or DHL, in which case it is about 3-5 days, and shipping is $35 minimum.


Factoring these, I believe these prices are reasonable, since you are guaranteed a light, and swiftly. Plus there is an additional advantage of "warranty returns" where you have to send it back to the local seller within India, and not to Fenix in China (I know this, since a JetBeam flashlight that I purchased in the US had to be sent to their China service center! It takes 3-4 weeks for Registered Shipping, and this wait is killing!).

choombak

Great, good to know, will try and pick up and E01 for starters.. Thank You Amar.

Regards
Moin.

With this many torchlights, you definitely qualify to be a resident of Aizawl, The loadshedding capital of the North East!

fenix is worthless as their customer service (OR lack of it ) is frustating

also internet explorer is worse than fenix, it deleted all of 800 or so words i used to detail my experience when i pressed the submit button

-- Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:10 am --

"only shipping charges are to be borne"

Bluedart qouted me rs 1200/- for India to china . Fenix aksed me to also borne china to india shipping and any custom duty applicable (even when it was their shoody QC) the working life you are qouting are candy floss advertisements, things do fail and it counts whether the maker stand behind there product when this happen

fenix sell coz its cheap compared to a surefire or many others.
and i learned the hard way a lesson in false economy

only one thing comes cheap - cheapness - of workmanship , of business ethics and of promise

Thanks
PS: can't IFG be made to work properly in Opera desktop browser, it seems that theme does not work in it and it looks like we are browsing in text only mode . I thought it was coz i was not registerd member but the problem persists even after becoming a member of IFG forums.

aglover wrote:fenix is worthless as their customer service (OR lack of it ) is frustating

also internet explorer is worse than fenix, it deleted all of 800 or so words i used to detail my experience when i pressed the submit button

-- Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:10 am --

"only shipping charges are to be borne"

Bluedart qouted me rs 1200/- for India to china . Fenix aksed me to also borne china to india shipping and any custom duty applicable (even when it was their shoody QC) the working life you are qouting are candy floss advertisements, things do fail and it counts whether the maker stand behind there product when this happen

fenix sell coz its cheap compared to a surefire or many others.
and i learned the hard way a lesson in false economy

only one thing comes cheap - cheapness - of workmanship , of business ethics and of promise

Thanks

Indian Postal Service guarantees a Registered Post delivery - it cost me Rs. 130 to send my JetBeam to their service center in China. It takes 2 weeks, but the delivery is guaranteed. And you could have checked with the seller, since it is the seller's responsibility to warranty any goods, and get you a replacement if required. Was your light out of warranty, that you had to send it to China?

Surefire is wayyyyy too overpriced for what they offer, and in May 2011, all Surefire lights cost 25% more than what they did. Heck, if I am paying for a diamond, it is no surprise that I get one. There are far far better brands than Surefire in terms of quality/cost ratio. Additionally, Fenix has its prices competitively placed along with several other reputed brands like 4sevens, JetBeam, Nitecore, and so on. So saying Fenix sells 'cos its cheap is an overstatement.

I won't rubbish Fenix for poor worksmanship, since there was a large thread on cpf showing their QC processess, and it was impressive. You may have got a lemon (sad, but happens). I do agree with the shoddy business ethics, and I have had a first hand experience of this with Fenix, but that's another story on another day.

Hence, as I said to Moin, it is best to purchase it from a local seller, since warranty and other such things are taken care of. Sorry you had a poor experience with Fenix.

-- Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:00 am --

jonahpach wrote:With this many torchlights, you definitely qualify to be a resident of Aizawl, The loadshedding capital of the North East!

Or Maharashtra, the loadshedding capital state of the West (Mumbai and Pune excluded). 12 to 16 hrs. in the villages, about 6 to 8 hours in towns and tier two cities, and about 3 in large ones per day. I am in Pune, which is free from loadshedding, but we pay a higher electricity price per unit than rest of the world. Sucks, but that's how it has been, and there seems to be no respite in the immediate future.

So these work like a charm, and my larger AA lights are used a "candles" by pointing them towards the ceiling and achieving ceiling bounce of the light.