Indians For Guns

Guys,
Just came across this amazing site.

http://www.sniperflashcards.com/index.php

"The most effective weapon system employed against pure infantry [in Grozny] was the sniper, a casualty producer, psychological weapon, and impediment to rapid movement. Nothing could slow down a force as much as the sniper." — Timothy Thomas, Lt Col

All that those flash cards are, a way to memorise hold overs for a given condition. A decent drop table will do the same for you.
The most important factor I am sure as you will agree is shooting targets at unknown distance, and being able to judge the distance and condition correctly.
However nothing will beat knowing how your rifle performs with the mated ammunition.

A 4 mil holdover at a hypothetical distance of 500 yards that works with a 150 grain .308 projectile shot at a nominal 2700 fps will not work with a say 200 grain bullet. IMHO my .0000000000002 cents; then again I am no sniper. Just a group shoter.

Most of Chechen's snipers in Grozny were girls from Latvia and Lithuania, who were competitive biathlon athletes. Angle distance and windage can be learned quite fast, but learn basics like holding position, aiming, trigger control - may take years. I doubt those flash cards are able to compensate. Biathlon is perfect training model for military snipers, shoot and run and shooters trained to make shot under stress in shortest possible time. they used svd semi auto rifles with 10 round magazine and Ak 47 amo, if first shot did not went correct they simply were making few more.

Subal:

The SVD cant use AK-47 ammo. The former is 7.62x54R while the AK is generally 7.62x39. Two very different cartridges.
In most armies Snipers are used more than just shooting.

MoA wrote:Subal:

The SVD cant use AK-47 ammo. The former is 7.62x54R while the AK is generally 7.62x39. Two very different cartridges.
In most armies Snipers are used more than just shooting.

you are right, I'm not sure exactly what kind of amo they used, but I know they did not have access to special amo for SVD, because Russians did not give it to anybody.

Neither will SVD take 7.62x39, nor do I think 7.62x39 can be used for any meaningful sniping beyond 200 meters even if fired from AK 47. But most of the urban combat is usually at around 200 meters distance or less.

Sniper training manual can be downloaded here free for legal distribution


FM 23-10 (ARMY FIELD MANUAL 23-10), SNIPER TRAINING (17 AUG 1994)., This field manual provides information needed to train and equip snipers and to aid them in their missions and operations. It is intended for use by commanders, staffs, trainers, snipers, and soldiers at training posts, Army schools, and units. This manual is organized as a reference for snipers and leads the trainer through the material needed to conduct sniper training. Subjects include equipment, weapon capabilities, fundamentals of marksmanship and ballistics, field skills, mission planning, and skill sustainment. The left-handed firer can become a sniper, but all material in this book is referenced to the right-handed firer.

http://www.everyspec.com/ARMY/FM+-+Fiel ... -10_14421/

interesting to note that main selection criteria for snipers during WW2 by Russian forces was ability to make accurate shot very fast . observing target in periscope and then 2-3 seconds shot. same in present US anti snipers forces. Consider that US now has laser based anti sniper blinding devises, 2-3 sec is not an option, 2-3 sec and sniper get blind. future perhaps with remote controlled rifle complexes, or at least observation of target via digital camera based scope, then laser will damage camera chip instead of an eye.

Strange to note Russians have forgotten both urban combat and sniping!! Stalingrad, Berlin, Leningrad, ........., Vassili Zaitsev???? Even the use of female snipers was more or less started at Stalingrad..... Seems we Indians are not the only ones to forget our own history Santayana, anyone?

snIPer

Whats the longest range at which you shoot at regularly and with what gun ?

M.

snIPer wrote:Guys,
Just came across this amazing site.

http://www.sniperflashcards.com/index.php

"The most effective weapon system employed against pure infantry [in Grozny] was the sniper, a casualty producer, psychological weapon, and impediment to rapid movement. Nothing could slow down a force as much as the sniper." — Timothy Thomas, Lt Col

Regular - Not more than what our local range allows - so will be 50 mtrs with a .22 lr.
/S/

essdee1972 wrote:Strange to note Russians have forgotten both urban combat and sniping!!

could you elaborate please?

MoA wrote:All that those flash cards are, a way to memorise hold overs for a given condition. A decent drop table will do the same for you.

The fact that ammunition manufacturers print their data sheets in what is certainly the most useless format conceivable (yards to the target and inches below the bullseye) has contributed to a tremendous amount of confusion in the general public. It's not that the data is wrong, it is just that nothing on your scope measures, or is calibrated in, yards or inches. Scopes measure angles (the apparent size of a target) and have dials calibrated in angles (elevation and windage).

MoA wrote:The most important factor I am sure as you will agree is shooting targets at unknown distance, and being able to judge the distance and condition correctly.

Yardage is a detour from the input data (height of target) to the output data (holdover on a mil-dot). The Aguilar System for Medium Range Sniping goes directly from the height of the target to the holdover without any unnecessary detours of the type that the Mildot Master® makes. In this way a sniper or designated marksman can get a bullet on his or her target in five seconds without a spotter or any ancillary devices.

MoA wrote:However nothing will beat knowing how your rifle performs with the mated ammunition.

A 4 mil holdover at a hypothetical distance of 500 yards that works with a 150 grain .308 projectile shot at a nominal 2700 fps will not work with a say 200 grain bullet.

My customers are specifically directed to choose the ammunition for their rifle with the least wind drift at 500 yards, as shown on the manufacturer's spec sheets. In your example, you mentioned 200-grain bullets to make a point, yet no sniper is actually firing such heavy bullets from a .308. If you are just trying to be contrary, it is always possible to point to a lightweight bullet intended for varmints or a heavyweight bullet intended for dangerous game that does not work with my system, but that is ignoring the many cartridges intended for long-range shooting that do work with my system.



As you can see from the chart, you will never be more than four inches off at 600 yards when using my system even when firing such different rifles as the .243 or the .30-06. Since most people cannot hold on a four-inch target at 600 yards anyway, they should not complain too bitterly about this little bit of error in my system.

In Chenia not only SVD were used,but specialized silenced weapons VSS(vintorez),these weapons use SP4,5,6 ammo(I've fired a version in 9*39,but I believe there are versions in other calibers),many of which were captured from the Russians,and Subal is right this weapon system isn't supplied to other forces.This is the only silenced weapon I've seen that penetrates steel helmets at 300 mtrs!I've fired the De Leslie silenced weapon,beyond 100 meters its useless.The russians are deploying new sniper rifles SV98 SV99,bolt action rifles with interchangable barrels,will try to get some fotos,but their sensor policies are pretty tough.
Regards
Rohan