Poll -Should we allow hunting related posts on this forum

[nagarifle]

i remember reading in Gandhiji auto that the Muslim take better care of livestock then Hindus.

i am not going down the religion lines. but it shows that if you care for something then you take care of it.

[Anand]

Gentlemen,
Freedom of speech still exists in our great country! Discussions regarding legitimate hunting should be included, however, since any of these can be purposely potrayed in a negative light caution must be exercised in keeping the discussions to ethical as well as legal hunts only, whether in India or abroad.
Regards,
Anand

[snIPer]

YES, and those who don't like Hunting should keep away and stop grumbling and mumbling about them being demi gods and vegetarian keeper of the eternal greenery.
/S/

[Steve007]

Gentlemen, this is how gun-haters win. They take advantage of differences between gun guys. Shotguns are fine, but rifles are bad. Rifles are fine, but handguns are bad. Revolvers are fine, but semi-autos are bad. Airguns are fine, but gunpowder is morally flawed.

The facts are that any legitimate sensible gun activity is good for us all, and the fact that (alas) there appears to be no sport hunting in India (though edible game always consumed) doesn't mean it isn't to be acknowledged, supported and praised in other countries, conditions or times when it is legal and sensible. I hunt only birds with my dogs, but ethical hunters of any legal game in any country are equally admirable (though not as admirable as my dog ).

Otherwise, the gun-haters win. Don't kid yourself that you can separate yourself from hunting, even if you don't do it yourself, without turning your back on all guns to a considerable degree.

[gunnera4]

good post herb, down here in the states we have a special tax on firearms and ammunition to support wildlife conservation. sportsmen went to congress and asked to be taxed for this purpose. it shocked the congress, "citizens asking to be taxed?" unheard of! but we got the law enacted and have vigorously fought to keep it and block politicians attempts to raid the wildlife fund for other purposes. its a good law, not only benefiting hunters but all who use the woods and forests, hikers, campers, fishermen who do not pay the tax. we also have anti-hunting groups and people, and i like to ask them where the money to support wildlife conservation would come from if there were no "pitman-robertson tax", they have no real answer.

-- Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:35 pm --

subdal das makes a good point, the hunting and shooting sports, when and where legal. provide a reservoir of people with shooting skills to defend themselves and their society. the japanese admiral who planned the raid on the pearl harbour naval base which prompted our entry into ww2 was once asked why he never planned an invasion of the mainland u.s., his reply was that "an invader would find a rifleman behind every blade of grass." to have an army is a good thing, if they are well trained, well armed, equipped and well paid, but a people in arms to back up their army is even better when a nation and government is worthy of its people, respecting their rights and freedom.

[nagarifle]

to be scared of the antis is to give up the right to live.
to be scared of the antis is to give up the right to think.
to be scared of the antis is to give up the right to freedom.
to be scared of the antis is to give up the right to be called free.

to ....shell i go on?

to be thoughtful of the view and feelings of others is a noble act on oneself.

but to be controlled by what others think is noting less then being a slave and living in fear.

[Amit357]

Hi Herb,here in India the farts sitting at the head of state govts and govt of India,cant get there act together,there is no accountability for anything.The law banning of hunting was passed in 1974 and later revised in 1978/1982,it was justified to pass the law in 1974,cause 100 years of rape of the land by Brits had wildlife on the edge and the entire wildlife system would have collapsed if the ban was not imposed.
Wildlife has an uncanny habit of surfacing after a certain time if left untouched and it started muliplying to the extent that now it has become unmanageable untill some action is taken.Here the basic problem is that no one has any knowldge and nor do they want to put any effort to gain the knowldge for effective wildlife management.Poaching is so active around the area where we live and these poachers kill wild boars in a way which defies any touch of a sport.They have the Wildlife Guards on the take and they are commiting murder and there is no one to stop them,no quaters are given to female of the species or the juviniles,they are there for the meat and thats it.I was one speaking to the wildlife incharge of the area but found out that he was more intrested in getting his posting to his hometown rather than doing his job.For most of the staff a posting in the wildlife deptt is a punishment posting.If one has legal hunting the people hunting in that area are wildlife wardens for the simple reason that they are paying money to hunt there and wont tolerate any poaching in their area.
As you have written in Africa and certain states of N.America the revenue which is earned by wildlife is mind boggling.We had approached the officials with a proposal for legal hunting with high value permits after showing them the American and African model, but am sure if we go to the concerened deptt the proposal will be lying in a dust bin gathering what else but dust .
As far as fishing, people use explosives for fishing which wipes out the entire marine life in an area,and then they start from a new place,its a sad picture of a sad place to be in.Rivers are Dammed without any fish steps for the fish to go upsteam and breed,we used to see and fish so many trouts in the cold water steams of Himachal now with Hydel Dams coming up we hardly see any.They cant go upstream to breed and downstream they are blown up with gerandes /dynamite.

[grewal]

So what is this concept of 'tasteful'? A clean shot, followed by instantaneous death? No gory exit wounds? Or should we term 'tasteful' as posing with the animal looking as if it is still full of life and could spring away any moment? And then wondering, whether it would have appealed more to the heart, by just watching it continue its life in graceful beauty, rather than frozen in a photograph!

Then there is this grand concept of 'legality', Ah! What a concept, designed by men to keep other men from transgressing into areas, which in other parts of the world may just be the opposite?

Then there is 'culling', wow, one does great good, by reducing the numbers of a species who CO-HABITAT the planet,like you and me, so WHO decides? We humans, supposedly on top of the gene pool, we grant ourselves the right to decide, on which species should be allowed to roam free in numbers and others to be slaughtered, perched on helicopters and shot in the back of the head.

So Gaurav, my friend, why not just leave it to that little voice in each of us, lets listen to that voice, if it is silent and it doesn't hurt to pull the trigger and watch a LIFE being taken, then I suppose its okay for that person. The question is WHAT does YOUR voice say? My inner voice says I will NOT,EVERMORE, pull a trigger, to take another LIFE, THAT, which I cannot give, I will not take. This is what MY voice says regarding hunting and I will abide by it? Others may abide by their own.

Beautifully explained . We have no right to take something which we cannot give. How can you people be so painless that you kill an animal who is grazing or a bird who is chirping innocently. If you people still want to talk and promote the feeling of hunting then why not start another thread where we talk about drugs and different ways of producing and consuming "Drugs" . I know no body will be even ready to listen to this thought . I hope Better Sense Prevails

Regards

Prabhdeep Singh Grewal

[gverma]

Guys, I am the only one who voted for "Yes but in a separate secluded area" while a large majority is fine with Yes.

I strongly urge that we should have a separate area clearly marked to respect the beliefs of the four members who voted no. At least this way they will not have to accidently view those posts.

Its like clearly marking out the veg dishes from non-veg dishes or marking out the smoking zone.
We may disagree with people but we should respect everyone's choice.

As this is a a firly emotional topic probably moderators should take a call at some point of time.

[Subal das]

gverma, it is public forum, you need to learn to ignore certain things as any mature person will do in normal life. I'm for hunting, but at the same time I understand that number of other people may have and expresses higher sentiments.

respect
Subal

[Sujay]

Voted Yes.

A little appalled by calling into poll whether posts related to hunting to be/not to be allowed in a pro gun forum, already having a separate section for "hunting....." under "outdoors" since the day this site came into existence !

What more seclusion can be offered ? Aren't members deliberately viewing that section instead of accidently bumping into hunting related posts ?

-- Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:50 pm --

Gaurav,

Can you please post one hunting related picture/video which you consider tasteful and explain the rationale behind it ?
I just want to know whether I may be missing something ?

Thanks,

Sujay

[gverma]

Hi
I can't really post any videos/pics as they are not in public domain.

But let me take an example of a video I was watching and try to attempt what I defne as tasteful and what I don't.

I describe anything as tasteful when the game has enough chance to escape and its not tying the animal and shooting. If the sport is so easy that it can be done within 10 min its not worth it.

I want to hunt not only for the trophy but also to consume with my friends, so if I can't do that then I dont want to hunt the animal down.

I dont want to hunt more animals/birds than I can consume.

I watched a Brit video in which most of the games were nice and at one point they did not kill a deer as it was too young, on the other hand in the same video the guys shot down around 32 geese, I dont think that is nice.

These are my two cents on the subject.

[Vikram]

Beautifully explained . We have no right to take something which we cannot give. How can you people be so painless that you kill an animal who is grazing or a bird who is chirping innocently. If you people still want to talk and promote the feeling of hunting then why not start another thread where we talk about drugs and different ways of producing and consuming "Drugs" . I know no body will be even ready to listen to this thought . I hope Better Sense Prevails

Grewal,

I am offended by your post.Or you equating discussing a conservation issue with narcotics? What is wrong about discussing about something so important?

Can anyone of you gentlemen writing about taking of a life,innocent creatures,beautiful animals etc, have made an honest effort to understand,study and form informed opinions? It's almost 40 years since the Wildlife Protection Act was passed and can anyone give us the progress that has been made?

Look at Botswana,Mozambique,Tanzania,Zimbabwe,Zambia etc,one of the poorest countries in the world and yet they have better track record of wildlife management than India.Why? How?

One needs to get out of anthropomorphising nature and wildlife to understand how they work.No one here in his right mind is advocating mass slaughter of wildlife.One is advocating sustainable,viable,practical,scientific approach to conservation and controlled hunting plays a huge part in it.

Someone asked about views on paying a special cess on wildlife protection and see the kind of outrage that will flood the government should such a tax is levied.

Many of us who support hunting are not bloodthirsty animal killers. I am a member of World Wildlife Fund and was a volunteer with Bluecross.

Just one example of how hunting is a very effective tool of conservation.

http://www.panda.org/who_we_are/wwf_off ... nservation

Now watch this

Villagers in Arunachal Pradesh killed a tiger and ate it.



http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/tiger_ki ... radesh.php

Even though, I saw this story months before, I did not post this for the sheer depressing nature of it. Those villagers killed and ate this animal because no one enlightened them that it's a beautiful, majestic creature which is critically endangered.It's cheap protein for them.NATURE.Simple economics. Where is the wildlife protection act and where is the outcry among the animal lovers?

Now imagine this situation:

Auction off the hunt of one tiger in the region.For that privilege, you have to imagine the price some people will be willing to pay.At a conservative estimate it would fetch $2 millions= 100 millions INR.Half of it goes into developing local communities and making them partners in the conservation effort and the rest goes into maintaining the forests. When they have sustainable income/profit, it becomes the villagers' stake to preserve the forests and wilderness.

Yes, it is taking a life.But,it will save a lot more lives.Which is better? Losing everything? Or prudently and pragmatically managing our resources?

Please spare us the moral preaching and helping us getting in touch with our emotional sides.I love my dogs more than many people in this world.But, if I have to put down a dog because it's rabid or it't too ill,I will. I will cry like a baby probably, but I will. Point? Do the needful instead of preaching pointless unviable emotional reasons.

Come up with some scientific and empirical arguments, we can learn from each other with respect and friendship.You want to preach or pass moral judgements on issues, please spare us the agony.


@Gverma, No one is forced to read any topic on this forum. We are all free people with our rights within the rules that govern all of us.If you or anyone do not like hunting/conservation related topics, it's as simple as not clicking on the post.Just ignore them if you are offended by the topic.

Best regards-
Vikram

[Sakobav]

So what is this concept of 'tasteful'? A clean shot, followed by instantaneous death? No gory exit wounds? Or should we term 'tasteful' as posing with the animal looking as if it is still full of life and could spring away any moment? And then wondering, whether it would have appealed more to the heart, by just watching it continue its life in graceful beauty, rather than frozen in a photograph!

Then there is this grand concept of 'legality', Ah! What a concept, designed by men to keep other men from transgressing into areas, which in other parts of the world may just be the opposite?

Then there is 'culling', wow, one does great good, by reducing the numbers of a species who CO-HABITAT the planet,like you and me, so WHO decides? We humans, supposedly on top of the gene pool, we grant ourselves the right to decide, on which species should be allowed to roam free in numbers and others to be slaughtered, perched on helicopters and shot in the back of the head.

So Gaurav, my friend, why not just leave it to that little voice in each of us, lets listen to that voice, if it is silent and it doesn't hurt to pull the trigger and watch a LIFE being taken, then I suppose its okay for that person. The question is WHAT does YOUR voice say? My inner voice says I will NOT,EVERMORE, pull a trigger, to take another LIFE, THAT, which I cannot give, I will not take. This is what MY voice says regarding hunting and I will abide by it? Others may abide by their own.

Beautifully explained . We have no right to take something which we cannot give. How can you people be so painless that you kill an animal who is grazing or a bird who is chirping innocently. If you people still want to talk and promote the feeling of hunting then why not start another thread where we talk about drugs and different ways of producing and consuming "Drugs" . I know no body will be even ready to listen to this thought . I hope Better Sense Prevails

Regards

Prabhdeep Singh Grewal

Grewal

If your post was a satire or meant to be a dark joke sorry I missed do enlighten .. especially the part of equating Consuming Drugs with Hunting or is it compared to ' blood lust'?? There is hardly any relationship between these two issues and you are unnecessarily providing a cynical twist and a convoluted logic. Especially since 'culling/hunting' animals is quite different from 'selling drugs for economic and other adverse ramifications to society'. neither does this board support hunting for just heck of it.Hunting has provided eco tourism which in turn protects the habitat and forest. Your post could also be seen to come across as a bait and provoking members for response, so do try to tone down the nature of your posts and lets keep it straight , simple and rational. Consider this as an sincere advise and stop pushing the envelope.

best

[prashantsingh]

After the Kalinga war Ashoka the Great embraced Buddhism and made it the state religion. He also took to the path of non-violence. What happened to his great empire? The great Maurya dynasty was over in the next 50 years.
In olden days hunting "as a sport" was practiced by the warriors and the noblemen. My article on Pig sticking is an example of how the Cavalry used the game to improve their skills in war.
Do you think a vegetarian soldier, who has never seen blood would be able to perform as well in a close combat?
Every one has his own place in society.
I have as much respect for the vegetarian "pandit" who recites the sanskrit "shlokas" and performs "pooja"; as I have for the soldier who defends my great nation.