SHOCKING!!!

[essdee1972]

Vik, it's actually the opposite. There are proper reserves for animals, but the government does not stop people from encroaching inside those reserves. Neither does the government do anything to stop animals from straying out of the reserves. Poverty is just another excuse for land grabbing.

In most cases, the animals have to be protected from people, from legal and illegal encroachments within designated national parks, highways and railway tracks laid merrily through protected forests, etc.

The problem is that people who normally advocate animal rights in India are highly hysterical and many a time quite illogical about it, hence have lost the respect of most people. Most of them being vegan, and quite aggressive about it, also colours the debate!

As I said, poverty is another excuse for land grabbing. The excuse given is "where will those poor people go". And then there are political forces involved. Unlike the US, for example, where you have 2 major parties, we have a few hundred, and all of them out to grab vote banks by promising sops (keep the land you encroached on).

Since I have mentioned leopards in my backyard, let me elaborate on the situation.

Mumbai is the only large city in India, and probably the world, which has a proper national park inside it. The park is not fenced (not fully at least), hence animals can stray out, and people can stray in. Certain political interests actually encourage people, covertly and overtly, to encroach in the park, as I mentioned above. You'd be aware that when cattle enter a grazing ground, the first thing which happens is that the deer and other natural denizens starve to death. Then the carnivores feel the hunger pangs and start on the cattle, goats, dogs. That is when the economic impact comes in, resulting in pressure on the government to "get rid of" the evil carnivores.

Another thing which happens in the encroached areas is that since the people do not have any ownership on the grounds where they graze cattle, they take no steps to ensure that the grass is regenerated. They simply over-graze and then move to other areas. The carnivores, by that time really starving, have no choice but to get into inhabited areas. The human kill I wrote about, 100 yards from my windows? That was well within the boundaries of the national park. But just outside a collection of shanties which have been illegally thrown up inside the park. A small girls answering the call of nature.

And since the makers of the shanties have to enter the park somehow, the wall (yes, this part is walled, with private funds contributed by the legal residential / commercial properties adjoining the park) has been broken. And so, when I walk the dog in the evenings, I carry a big Nitecore flashlight and a stick. Leopards can hide quite easily behind / under parked cars.

The man animal conflict in India is exacerbated due to:

1. Totally unchecked growth of population. Earlier, the government showed some bit of interest in population control, but now we harp on "largest population below 21" (i.e. unbridled population growth), and as mentioned by other posters earlier, some organisations actually go all out to promote population growth.
2. Very little knowledge of wildlife management. In high level decision-making, the trained personnel of Indian Forest Service reportedly have very little say (this is hearsay on my part, hence I used "reportedly", my informant might be totally mistaken). So what happens is, people who have harmoniously lived in forests for millenia are rooted out and poorly trained and even more poorly equipped personnel are substituted.
3. Hyperactive and hysterical animal rights advocates, leading to lack of respect for them. You wouldn't have much respect for people who picket honest poultry farmers and release their stock, would you?
4. Political and other vested interests at all levels. Leading to corruption (e.g. ecologically sensitive areas have mining and other industries sanctioned), favouritism, and all other evils normally emanating from such a state of affairs.
5. Poor training and poor equipment for forest guards. I remember watching a documentary on the South African forest service. They have M16 / AR15 type rifles, night sights, full jungle combat outfits to combat poachers. Our forest guards do the job with sticks, wearing flip-flops and riding bicycles or walking. Even the most dedicated forester will lose hope after a few years of this.

Now, all the above leads to a total lack of concern for wildlife, and when conflict happens, we either have a village devastated by elephants, or some leopard treated like traitors used to be treated in the Middle Ages!

[aadhaulya]

So in your opinion what is the solution??

Atul

[essdee1972]

What solution? Leopards don't vote. Neither do (many) educated people. Even if they (educated people) do, they don't vote as a "vote bank".

Gather as many pictures of leopards, tigers, etc. as you can. It'll help when we try to show our grandchildren what "wildlife" meant.

[aadhaulya]

Or let the leopards live in peacefully the cost of human life. India is as it is over populated And we van actually show our grandchildren the real thing.

Atul

[Vik]

essdee1972, that's the best explanation I've seen on the topic, and thanks. I appreciate you taking the time to explain, and I can't think of a better source, since you are living with it. I wasn't aware of political stuff happening, but since people are involved, should have known.

It does make a difference, I believe, if people are living in the national park by choice,and they know the animals are there and have a right to be there.

They have just changed the law in the US to where, if one has a permit for concealed carry in the US state where the national park is, one can carry concealed weapons. This takes care of the "people" threat, but is little better than nothing unless you are trying to conceal a hand cannon like a .500 S&W against some of the animals. I guess you could kill a mountain lion (leopard sized) or a black bear (from smaller than people to about 400 pounds) with a normal carry gun, but a 9mm would make a grizzly really mad...but, better than human teeth, I guess.

I think one problem worldwide is that animals don't fear people any more. In my youth (1950's and '60's) if one walked in the woods smoking a cigarette, you would see no animals. Now black bear, and I assume grizzly, will come up to people begging or just looking for food, even if you are smoking. They don't associate the smell of people with danger because we as a species don't carry weapons hardly at all compared to what we used to. We have far better weapons, but we don't have them available. The black bear (3 last year) we meet in the woods we just scare away. Griz probably wouldn't scare so easy, a really big one would weigh 1500 pounds and can look in your second story window if he stands up. I just realized, if you use the British system for floors, that would be the first floor, but the second floor above the ground floor level. I've never seen one in the wild, and don't want to, so I avoid places they are common.

[Hammerhead]

So in your opinion what is the solution??

Atul

Send in the good guys to the forest and may be some tasty politicians too.

Simple solution is as Pakistan did but India will never do, open up legal hunt that will kick bad people out and help preserve the game !!!

[Commonwealth_of_PA]

Another animal killed. While thousands of children are raped in front of their parents in Iraq and Syria, and their parents are told they need to be beheaded because it will save them religiously, and they could never live with the shame anyway. And then their heads are put on pikes around the outskirts of the cities.

[aadhaulya]

Send in the good guys to the forest and may be some tasty politicians too.

Simple solution is as Pakistan did but India will never do, open up legal hunt that will kick bad people out and help preserve the game !!!

Good solution....

Another animal killed. While thousands of children are raped in front of their parents in Iraq and Syria, and their parents are told they need to be beheaded because it will save them religiously, and they could never live with the shame anyway. And then their heads are put on pikes around the outskirts of the cities.

But let the leopards in India live peacefully.

[dr.jayakumar]

so so sad.

[russianshooter]

in Russia leopard is a frend

[SMJ]

That's a beautiful Siberian leopard- one of the rarest big cats in the world I believe. Their population as I understand is now sadly down to a handful Are they being kept in captivity to breed and re- introduce in the wild?

[russianshooter]

Yes in zoo in reserves
but big cat in home in Russia its normal 7 years ago I have lynx in my house
many buy a maincoone

on video its siberian lynx most bigger that is found in the Central Russian plain

[SMJ]

The Eurasinan lynx is quite widely spread and indeed that's a big Lynx on videos - thanks for sharing Russian shooter Is it from your place 7 years ago? Even in India until the 70's one could keep exotic wild pets but now it is completely illegal.

[russianshooter]

in russia its all legal
if animal have veterinar passport

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wolf





elk







lion



boar









Added in 1 minute 2 seconds:

[GNV]

russianshooter,

I was told that in Russia even the Siberian Tiger would be shot by the Govt people if it repeatedly enters human habitat and kills livestock ( not human beings ) if a few attempts of driving it away fail. Is it true?